Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=24341		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
So... has there been any gelling of opinions on this, or are people still all over the place in terms of what kind of screening/ZoC games are allowed?
Author:  Dave [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Most likely.

My group's in the "AC ignore ZoC" camp when assaulting. I believe a large portion of the EpicUK don't play that way.
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
As of the last discussion, it generally appeared that players in Australia, US and parts of Europe (as well as some UK players) allowed air assaults into scout screen formations.
It seems that a majority of players in the UK do not allow air assaults into scout screened formations.

There was no resolution as it seems that many of us have set ideas about it.

We certainly allow air assaults into multiple ZoC in Western Australia (and I know they do on the East coast as well).
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
I'd just drop it into the 5 minute warm up and if tournament organisers are that set in their opinions then let them add it to their rules pack.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
If the only major holdouts are the UK, then I'd go with the "everywhere else" ruling for the FAQ. It's not like the EUK tournaments allow NetEA army lists anyway.
Author:  Onyx [ Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Well I'm sure that Ginger would like to have a say in this discussion but he hasn't been on-line since Dec 4th.
We should wait to hear his input.

That said, it seems that a lot of players around the world are ignoring ZoC with their air assaults and the game is not breaking because of it.
Author:  Koshi [ Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Our group here in Austria play it the other way. Air aussault cannot move through scout screens.
Author:  Ginger [ Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
I think it would be wise to discuss ground ZoC effects separately from the 'air-assault' / barging side of things. The FAQ needs to be reviewed in that respect anyway to make sure we are clear on both intent and effect.

The 'air-assault' side of things is very tricky because of the impact it has on the game. Ideally we need to present FAQ that gains global acceptance. My only thought here where there are arguments both ways is to go with the approach which has the least impact to the game - so leaves the game as 'balanced' as possible. In this case, IMO, allowing ZoC to inhibit assaults has less impact, because both players still have options and counters (though opinions differ).

A similar example is the order that planetfalling forces arrive, deathwind attacks performed, casualty removals etc. (which could be another FAQ) - done one way allows the attacker to use several formations to peel away defences, while done in a different order has less impact to the defender. Nothing in the rules gives a clue as to which is correct, but Neal suggested the second approach was more appropriate.

There are similar views behind the order of actions at the start / end of each turn.
Author:  GlynG [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Tiny-Tim wrote:
I'd just drop it into the 5 minute warm up and if tournament organisers are that set in their opinions then let them add it to their rules pack.


I'd strongly prefer and suggest this option. Aircraft landing in ZOC can be abusive and unbalancing IMO but opinions are polarised and letting it be a gentlemen's agreement decided in the warm up is a better option than mandating it. I've only ever played that Scouts can block ZOC, but I no longer like in the UK, so this effects me.
Author:  Kyrt [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
On the air assault question, first of all just to say there are other areas in this general area, and I disagree that they should be covered separately (i.e. air assaults vs screening from behind). Overall, I would prefer a single ruling, as simple as possible, even if it doesn't give the result that everyone wants (of course it appears to be split anyway). For example:

Q: The rules state a unit can only enter the ZoC of a unit that is in a formation that is being engaged. Are there any exceptions to this?
A: Officially, no. However, there are occasions where this may create "gamey" or unfair situations, such as units with the Scout ability being able to prevent a formation in front of them from being engaged without being considered intermingled. Thus, it is strongly recommended to play with the following exception. A unit may enter into and remain in the ZoC of a unit that is not the target of an engagement, provided:
1. The formations involved are not eligible to be considered intermingled
2. The unit enters the ZoC of a unit from the target formation first, or simultaneously.
Note that a unit that enters the ZoC of a unit from the target formation must still use its remaining movement to try to move into base contact with that unit.


It's just an example, I haven't exhaustively explored it to know if it will work, but the above means that you can't screen air assaults or from behind with scouts without risk, but otherwise the game is unaffected.
Author:  Borka [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Kyrt wrote:
On the air assault question, first of all just to say there are other areas in this general area, and I disagree that they should be covered separately (i.e. air assaults vs screening from behind). Overall, I would prefer a single ruling, as simple as possible, even if it doesn't give the result that everyone wants (of course it appears to be split anyway). For example:

Q: The rules state a unit can only enter the ZoC of a unit that is in a formation that is being engaged. Are there any exceptions to this?
A: Officially, no. However, there are occasions where this may create "gamey" or unfair situations, such as units with the Scout ability being able to prevent a formation in front of them from being engaged without being considered intermingled. Thus, it is strongly recommended to play with the following exception. A unit may enter into and remain in the ZoC of a unit that is not the target of an engagement, provided:
1. The formations involved are not eligible to be considered intermingled
2. The unit enters the ZoC of a unit from the target formation first, or simultaneously.
Note that a unit that enters the ZoC of a unit from the target formation must still use its remaining movement to try to move into base contact with that unit.


It's just an example, I haven't exhaustively explored it to know if it will work, but the above means that you can't screen air assaults or from behind with scouts without risk, but otherwise the game is unaffected.


+1
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
While I agree that a single, simple FAQ is preferable, I suggest that we need to consider the 'ground' and 'air' cases separately and only try to combine the results into the single statement, based on points of commonality.

I also agree that this needs to be handled by FAQ rather than in the 5 mins warm-up and tournament notes, not least because of the size of the impact this has on the game.

Indeed, I sometimes feel that relegating these questions to the 5 min warm up is dodging the issue, and potentially extending it to a 10 mins debate ;)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Quote:
ndeed, I sometimes feel that relegating these questions to the 5 min warm up is dodging the issue, and potentially extending it to a 10 mins debate

Or worse, a thousand 2 minute debates over the course of a decade. :-p
Author:  Dave [ Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Ginger wrote:
Indeed, I sometimes feel that relegating these questions to the 5 min warm up is dodging the issue, and potentially extending it to a 10 mins debate ;)


Given how entrenched people are on the issue I think it's the only viable option. We're not going to get everyone to agree on this, and trying to go one way or another is going to end with the community fragmented further.
Author:  Kyrt [ Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Aircraft Barging - Everyone's Favorite
Perhaps it would be useful to also maintain, alongside the FAQ, a list of warmup topics :)
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/