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NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
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Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Firstly, I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to the previous NetERC thread - both for the suggestions and thoughts, and for keeping ti totally civil and friendly. Thanks guys.

Secondly, I wanted to briefly summarise the thread as I see it....

Goals

Its fairly unified about what we are actually looking for from any future ERC. As I see it, the goals are:
    Get momentum, and continual and regular progress
    Involve the community
    Distribute workload and add in redundancy
    Increase focus and give clear remit, to increase ownership

On top of that, the immediate priorities are:
    Army book
    NetEA web site; simplify structure and downloads
    NetERC structure

Perhaps surprisingly, many of the suggestions were along the same lines, with most people apparently agreeing that increasing the size of the ERC while requiring a majority decision rather than absolute agreement was broadly desired.

As such, Evil & Chaos suggested a seperate army committee to oversee army development while the ERC concentrate on core rules development, and this was supported by Mephiston and Tiny-Tim. Ginger then expanded on this to include groups to focus on army lists, FAQ and rules, and promotion and tournaments, and mattthemuppet agreed that the size of the ERC should be increased. Moscovian also put forward groups for rules, army list development, playtesting, website development, document/formatting, publication, forum development, model resources and painting resources. He also put forward the suggestion of having the army list development group consisting of an army list committee and the ACs, where only a majority would be needed, not an absolute agreement, and that the total would be around 9 ACs, 1 or 2 rules members and 1 or 2 other members.

I put forward the idea of a 'second' for each ERC member, but it was pointed out that this would be a fairly dull job 90% of the time (I then wonder if this 'second' position should be attached to another role).

On top of this, several people (Ares, Ginger) called for a clear and focussed remit and set of responsbilities for both the NetERC and ACs.

So, broadly, thats the 'minutes' of the discussion. I think that two things jump out at me here. Firstly, its the agreements that the ERC should continue but with more members, and secondly that the remit needs to be crystalised and that specialisation of roles appears to be generally agreed on.

There was some discussion on the ACs inclusion within the ERC, both for and against, but I think that the broad conclusion was that the ACs should be a seperate body from the ERC, and that they are best more specialised and able to focus on niche list development, leaving the ERC to take a more macro view of army lists. There is also the issue of ERC members who are also ACs. While I understand that - in a perfect world - a person should only have a single role, I dont know if it is practical or realistic. However, I would hope that in future appointments, if a candidate already holds a role, it would count against them.

So, my proposal is this....

1. The NetERC and ACs remain seperate.

2. The NetERC is expanded to the following positions:
- chair
- rules development, FAQs
- army list development
- campaigns and suppliments
- tournaments and events

This gives an ERC of five members, and gives each member a specific remit. However, each of the four posts (aside from chair) could have a team of people, that they could organise themselves - with the army list development member having the ACs. The chair would set deadlines and lead the other four in asking them for specific results by certain dates. In addition, each ERC members team would be able to provide a 'second' for the ERC member for absences, etc.

3. A seperate role of web site/forum/discussion also exists, but is held by myself. I am a little hesitant on this, as it is the only position pre-filled and happens to be me! 8) However, I cant see any alternative, and I would make this a more open process and get other people involved as and when required.


So, please feel free to comment on the above. I am not sure that this goes far enough, to be honest, and I dont want it to come across as just a 'variation' on a theme. So, what do you think of the above, what would you change and what do you like?

Thanks.
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
I would wonder whether there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between the "campaigns and suppements" position and the "tournaments and
events" position (I'd also wonder whether tournaments is really something that can be handled by the NetERC, or whether it's better to rely on people 'on the spot').

Personally, I'd say fold those two positions together and add you to the NetERC formally. Among other things, it makes it a lot easier to come up with enough members. ;) On the other hand, there might be some advantages to having the NetERC be more separate from the forums. Up to you, really.

I think the obvious people to comment on this are the various members and ex-members of the NetERC, since they'll probably have more insight into how the workload could be broken down.

Speaking for me, I think it's a workable system. I think we should probably discuss just what we expect various positions to do and all that sort of thing, but that looks like a solid basis for good things.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
As far As I'm concerned the ERC has 3 duties:

1- maintain an FAQ / Errata document
2- appoint army champions and censure or replace idle or incompetent champions
3- compile the Armies book


I do not see what anSupplements or Tournaments ERC member will bring to the table.
Author:  frogbear [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Evil and Chaos wrote:
I do not see what anSupplements or Tournaments ERC member will bring to the table.

agree
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
I'd say they're part of what I've always seen as one of the ERC's duties:

Help Epic grow and prosper where possible.

A campaign and supplements ERC member could try and coordinate the various supplements, marshal resources to help with their creation, make sure they're kept up to date once created, coordinate online campaigns, and take the fall when GW finally comes knocking (well, maybe not that last one)...
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Thanks for your comments, guys.

Simulated Knave wrote:
Personally, I'd say fold those two positions together and add you to the NetERC formally.


Just a quick note about this. I have always seen my position as facilitating the NetERC when things go well, and overseeing them when they dont. As such, I have tried to make it very clear that I dont have any development power, to avoid any conflict of interest coming up.

Simulated Knave wrote:
I would wonder whether there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between the "campaigns and suppements" position and the "tournaments and
events" position (I'd also wonder whether tournaments is really something that can be handled by the NetERC, or whether it's better to rely on people 'on the spot').


Evil and Chaos wrote:
I do not see what anSupplements or Tournaments ERC member will bring to the table.


The additional two positons exist for two reasons. Firstly, to bring the membership up to five, which increases redundancy and should allow decisions to be made faster. However, this is a pretty poor reason for adding two people. The major reason is that I am looking forward. For Epic to grow, it will need to cover these two aspects. For example, with the lists at various states of development, which ones are balanced enough for tournament use? What changes could be implemented to lists to avoid balance issues? What about additional scenarios, etc? Campaigns and suppliments is fairly self explanatory, as I feel that while we have some great suppliments produced and currently in the works, I dont know how the 'next suppliment' is determined to ensure that these things cover the required lists. This position would also liaise with the army list ERC but would look at variant lists for inclusion (while the army list ERC would deal with ACs, who would organise sub-ACs on variants).

These are all just suggestions, and I am happy to hear suggestions based on this structure.

Thanks.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
As regards what lists are balanced for tournament use, that should be determined as part of the armies book process.

I don't see at all what a supplements ERC member would do. Supplements are done by volunteers, what an erc member offer?
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
oversight? to ensure that the suppliments are best serving the interests of the NetEA community, rather than simply the interests of the person making the suppliment.

frankly, i think that giving 1 member control over all the lists is a terrible idea. and i'm not convinced that approving lists for tournaments or army books is in any way seperate task for approving lists in any other circumstance, i dont think there needs to be 3 seperate positions, i think it should be 3 members sharing the one position, with a majority required for approval (i'd go so far as to suggest that the ERC might be best to be 7 members, 5 dedicated army list people, with 4 army list people (or 3 and both others) required to approve a list)

i would also encourage the selection process to seriously consider members from outside the UK for positions, to better represent non-british metagame conditions and priorities.

beyond that, i hope this ERC business goes well and results in an improvement for the community.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
i would also encourage the selection process to seriously consider members from outside the UK for positions, to better represent non-british metagame conditions and priorities.


Just to pick up on this point briefly. The NetERC has traditionally drawn internationally. In fact, Mephiston in the first and only UK member to date.
Author:  Jaggedtoothgrin [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
ah, so its just 'not australia' then? XP
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Don't be silly; arguably the most important AC (space marines!) is an Australian.
Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Jaggedtoothgrin wrote:
ah, so its just 'not australia' then? XP


One of the most important qualifications for the NetERC or an AC position is that they cannot live in the Southern hemisphere (or have the word 'tooth' in their pseudonym). ;D

I think the ideas look fine. I was a bit doubtful about a tournament chair on the NetERC but now that I think about it, the idea isn't all that bad. Collecting ideas on tournament formats, keeping track of army lists used, success rates for those armies, sharing ideas for unusual rules, maybe even working with GW at times to try to get us more space at Games Day.

Personally I ran two GW Epic events in Baltimore and I found that they bent over backwards. But making the initial contacts with the right people was annoying. Somebody who keeps their finger on the pulse of things might not be a bad inclusion at all, not to mention becoming a keeper of statistics for determining the frequency of army wins/losses. Just brainstorming.
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Will the Tournament chair on NetERC be working with various main tournament organisers, liasising with them on approved tournament lists (note use of word liasing rather than dictating or insisting etc).

If so then one of the key responsibilities for this new role will be building a good working relationship with EUK, and hopefully in time narrowing the gap between NetEA and EUK.

Cheers

James
Author:  Steve54 [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Any further movement on appointing new netERC members?
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NetERC - Summary and Suggestions
Sorry for the delay with this. Given the pages of feedback that the previous thread resulted in, this one has been very quiet. I am still debating as to whether that is a good thing or not. To recap, the initial idea was:

- chair
- rules development, FAQs
- army list development
- campaigns and suppliments
- tournaments and events

There were various questions regarding this, although I have to admit less argument than I feared. I would like to thank those who have commented. Therefore, I am going to set out how the NetERC will be structured going forwards. I am happy to take some feedback on this but please be aware that we are at a stage now where we need to progress with this. I will also outline the broad remit of each post.

NetERC (Epic Rule Committee) - Membership

The NetERC will consist of five members, with a sixth honourary member. The five members will consist of a chair, to guide and provide direction, and four members with specific and defined remits. Each member will be able to make decisions within their remit. Decisions requiring broader discussion will require a majority (excluding abstaining/absent members). Each of the four members will also draw on a small team of people for ideas, discussion and inspiration. Non-NetERC members may be a member of more than one of these teams. The NetERC member however makes decisions, and the team are there to aide and inspire (although it is expected that the NetERC member/team leader draw on and listen to the opinions of, the team).

NetERC Chair

The Chair sets direction, deadlines and goals for the NetERC and the project in general. They oversee development at a macro level. They are expected to interact primarily with the other four members of the NetERC. They should co-ordinate development and set priorities, and resolve any disagreements. They are overall responsible for the momentum of the development.

Rules Development and FAQs

This position deals with the core rules, which are any game rules not concerned with specific army factions or with a specific tournament situation (broadly, sections 1-4 of the rule book). It should be fairly self-explanatory what EA rules are covered by this, and this includes game-wide FAQs. Any army rules that are promoted to general abilities/special rules are transferred to this NetERC member.

In addition, they draw from a team that they may set up, and oversee (act as second for) the Tournaments, Events, Campaigns and Suppliments position if/when they are absent and a decision must be made.

Army List Development (Human)

The first of the two army list positions, deals with the largely human-centric lists, as well as the additional lists under development. In total, they co-ordinate and oversee the Marines, IG, Adeptus Mechanicus and Chaos lists, as well as any lists developed on the 'NetEA Other Forces' board. They act on deadlines set by the Chair and ensure that any and all lists under their remits meet the schedule and are progressing with momentum, as well as stepping in when ACs are absent. They are aided by a team made up of the ACs for the four lists under their remit, and may draw assistance from these development communities and the forum members driving the development of any 'other lists'. In addition, they act as a second to the Army List Development (Xenos) NetERC member when they are absent and a decision must be reached.

Army List Development (Xenos)

This position mirrors the 'Human Development' NetERC member, except that they deal with the Ork, Eldar, Tau, Tyranid and Necron lists, and their support team is made up of these five ACs. (Note that both of these lists contain a rough split of 'stable' and 'under development' forces.) Also, they act as a second to the Army List Development (Human) NetERC member when they are absent and a decision must be reached. By necessity, both of the Army List Development members are expected to work closely and keep each other up to date with major issues (for example, special rules that are currently a 'hot topic', particular issues on lists, and perceived significant imbalances) both in case the other is required as a second and also as these issue may affect multiple lists.

Tournaments, Events, Campaigns and Suppliments

Firstly, we need to shorten that title! TECS? This position has a number of duties that may not be clear on first inspection. There are three main areas:

While I acknowledge that suppliments are produced extremely well autonomously, and I have absolutely no desire to take away that autonomy, I do think that it would be beneficial to have a NetERC member looking out for these. This member would guide the selection of forces included, and set schedules for final release targets, as well as feeding back to the NetERC where suppliments may include specific rules and scenario linked issues. In addition, any 'campaign packs' or linked game rules and output would be dealt with my this member.

Also, I do feel that tournaments could be better handled is we have a NetERC member looking out for this. This is not just for Epic-specific tournaments, but Epic events at larger tournaments, where the TOs may not be as up to date. I can see several questions arising - for example, whether the tournament wants to run a 'stable list' event or will allow lists under construction, whether sub-lists are ready for tournament events, what scenarios work best in given tournament events and with lists, and so on.

This position would also be a first point of contact for any event organisers looking for help with Epic, and so it covers a more general publicity handling duty. The TECS member should attempt to liaise with EpicUK, GW, and other EA groups. They also act as a second for the Core Rules NetERC member.


In addition to the above, there are two other sets of duties to define:

Army Champions: These are the driving force of the development, and play a critical role. Each AC will be responsible for their faction, and all sub-ACs will report to them. They should ensure that they are keeping track of the sub-lists and development and step in if it falters, as well as ensuring that the main development list continues. The AC role should be acknowledged better, and they should be supported by the relevant Army Development NetERC member.

Web Co-ordination and Archiving: Really, this is just an opportunity to give myself a fancy title! I will remain detached from actual development, with my role being to support development at all levels and to step in if issues arise at higher levels. I will organise and construct official NetERC/NetEA web portals and resources, keep the boards functioning and deal with any admin. I will also need to deal with any legal issues that may come up (with support from the NetERC). I remain as a sixth honourary NetERC member.

So, this is the structure moving forwards. I will leave this for initial comments. However, please understand that moving forwards is the most important thing now, and while I welcome feedback and clarification questions, we cant sit here redesigning the wheel.

Thanks for your patience.
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