Tactical Command
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Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=20746		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Tue May 17, 2011 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
The rules are clear that a unit cannot go on overwatch and make a sustained fire in the same turn.
This does not say that a unit that was put on overwatch in a previous turn cannot sustain fire when triggered by enemy movement, so I am trying to clarify whether formations that are on overwatch from a previous turn can sustain fire.

Quote:
Quote:
Q: Is a formation that has successfully activated an
Overwatch action subsequently able to make a sustained fire
OW attack in the same turn, (or does it have to wait until the
next turn to be able to do this)?
A: Overwatch and Sustained Fire are two different actions
that can be taken. You have to choose one or the other when
you activate the formation. You can't combine actions.



Next, a unit on overwatch may only react when a formation moves or unloads troops. Most will need line of sight to fire, but all that is required is the target formation has moved or unloaded troops. Assuming a formation was placed on overwatch in a previous turn rather than this one, this does not appear to preclude indirect firing weapons firing at units outside of their line of sight.

Quote:
1.10 OVERWATCH
A formation that takes an overwatch action may not
move, but may shoot, outside of the normal turn
sequence, in response to an enemy formation’s
movement.
A formation that is on overwatch may choose to shoot
immediately after an enemy formation completes a move
or unloads troops, and before the target either shoots or
assaults.
Also note that formations on overwatch may only react
when a formation moves or unloads troops. They may not
to choose to shoot at a formation that does anything else
in their line of fire, such as shooting without moving or
regrouping.


And finally, indirect fire weapons that aren't specifically prevented from direct firing (eg the Manticore) can still fire at targets within minimum range (30cm), but if doing so can't fire as a barrage.
Author:  GlynG [ Tue May 17, 2011 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
It looks pretty clear to me already; a formation on overwatch can't sustained fire in a subsequent turn as a reaction to enemy movement, because it isn't suddenly allowed to take a new action at that point. All the quoted overwatch rules do is allow it to do is to react by firing out of the normal sequence.
Author:  Onyx [ Tue May 17, 2011 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
Now now, Matt...
I've already tried to explain that to you :) (obviously my explaination wasn't as clear as it could have been).

You cannot Sustain Fire as part of an Overwatch action. They are 2 seperate actions and require 2 seperate activation rolls.

The only way you can fire without LoS is by using a Sustain Fire action on a unit with the Indirect Fire ability. Since Overwatch cannot be used to trigger a Sustain Fire action, there can be no firing indirectly at units that you do not have LoS to.

Stop trying to make that Guard artillery/Deathstike silo even better than it is now! ;)
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Tue May 17, 2011 8:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
lol :)

I read your explaination (thanks), but the reason I'm asking again here is because the quote from the rules was asking about overwatch and sustain fire in the same turn, which can't be done as it would be combining two different actions. I completely agree with that.

Overwatch and Sustained Fire are two different actions that can be taken.
Overwatch is an action: The formation may not move, but instead enters overwatch.
Sustained Fire is an action: The formation may not move (not even to turn in place), but can shoot with a +1 modifier.

So it's clearly stated that you can't activate, go on overwatch, and then sustain fire in the same turn. I'm trying to find out if there is actual clarity in the rules on whether you can activate, go on overwatch, and then in a future turn have the out of sequence shooting that overwatch allows be sustained fire. You're probably right that you can't, but yes it's not the clearest written section of the rules.
Author:  KivArn [ Tue May 17, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
No you can't for the same reasons - The overwatch action is an action - it allows you to shoot once (out of sequence), It does not allow you to pick another action and use that out of sequence.

If you could then what's stopping you from using an engage move or march move as your overwatch 'action'.

What you can do is go into overwatch one turn, then in the next turn ditch overwatch and perform a sustained fire action (with a new dice roll) but this happens during your go, not part way through your opponents
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue May 17, 2011 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
The answer is, no you can't.
Author:  Matt-Shadowlord [ Tue May 17, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
Quote:
If you could then what's stopping you from using an engage move or march move as your overwatch 'action'.


The fact that the rules only say it lets you shoot, not engage or move or march, and sustained fire is just a type of shooting without engaging, moving or marching.

However, if the concensus is that you can't, I'm happy to accept that you can't.
Author:  Ulrik [ Tue May 17, 2011 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
And finally, indirect fire weapons that aren't specifically prevented from direct firing (eg the Manticore) can still fire at targets within minimum range (30cm), but if doing so can't fire as a barrage.


Say what? How can manticores fire without it being a barrage...?
Author:  Carrington [ Tue May 17, 2011 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
Ulrik wrote:
Matt-Shadowlord wrote:
And finally, indirect fire weapons that aren't specifically prevented from direct firing (eg the Manticore) can still fire at targets within minimum range (30cm), but if doing so can't fire as a barrage.


Say what? How can manticores fire without it being a barrage...?


Nb. Barrages can be fired indirect or direct. To fire indirect they must take a successful sustained fire action. As I understand it, there's nothing preventing firing a barrage via opportunity fire (as long as you have LOS, etc.). Also, as I understand it, there is no minimum range for a direct fire barrage; i.e. Manticores can get 'up close and personal' if they're firing direct fire.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed May 18, 2011 12:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overwatch, Indirect and Sustained Fire
Carrington wrote:
Barrages can be fired indirect or direct. To fire indirect they must take a successful sustained fire action. As I understand it, there's nothing preventing firing a barrage via opportunity fire (as long as you have LOS, etc.). Also, as I understand it, there is no minimum range for a direct fire barrage; i.e. Manticores can get 'up close and personal' if they're firing direct fire.


This is correct. Indirect fire is a vountary ability, and barrage weapons that choose not to use it operate identically to barrage weaps without that ability, (i.e. no minimum range, range not doubled, needs LOS).
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