Tactical Command
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Garrison and Overwatch
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=20334		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  BlackLegion [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Garrison and Overwatch
If a Formation is deployed as a Garrison and on Overwatch can it opt to change its Order during the first turn?
IIRC it is assumed to have activated in the turn before so activating with a different Order in the first turn is allowed (assuming the Fornmation hasn't used Overwatch-fire)?
Author:  Mephiston [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Yes, it can still activate.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
It is assumed to have been put on OW before the start of the game, so during the #1st turn it can activate as normal, use it's OW to shoot at an enemy that moves into range, or it can "pass" and remain on OW (if it has not activated by the end of the turn).
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Ginger wrote:
or it can "pass" and remain on OW (if it has not activated by the end of the turn).


I thought fms on OW still had to pass an initiative test to stay on OW? I'm certain that it can't be used as a "pass" activation in the middle of a turn.
Author:  Dave [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
I think the option to pass and remain on OW at the end of the turn was part of the Epic Handbook 08. As far as I know you have to roll to remain on overwatch.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Not in the middle of the turn. However, if the only activations left are on OW, the player may elect to pass (retaining them all on OW). Note if he does so, he may not later change his mind and attempt to activate for the remainder of the turn.

This is a '2008 amendment', that ought to be in the Online rules, but supercedes the original hardcopy sets
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
I don't know about the legitimacy of various rulesets and amendments (came to E:A too late to know about it), but I'd stick with Dave on this one. Besides, a "free*" activation like this, whenever in the turn it happens, seems to break the basic rules.

*free as in units not on OW have to pass an initiative test to go on OW, therefore staying on OW is still an activation and as such requires an initiative test
Author:  dptdexys [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
BlackLegion wrote:
If a Formation is deployed as a Garrison and on Overwatch can it opt to change its Order during the first turn?
IIRC it is assumed to have activated in the turn before so activating with a different Order in the first turn is allowed (assuming the Fornmation hasn't used Overwatch-fire)?



From the rulebook,
Quote:
Formations remain on overwatch until they either shoot, or they undertake a new action in the following turn. Note that this means that a unit can go into overwatch on one turn, and
not shoot until the following turn. Shooting in the following turn counts as your action for that turn, and will stop the formation taking an action later on. If the formation does not shoot in the following turn then it may take an action instead of shooting.

From tournament section of the rulebook,
Quote:
Each player may start up to two of their garrisoned formations on Overwatch. These formations represent sentries deployed as a trip wire and to provide security at the objectives. They are assumed to have gone on Overwatch in their previous Action phase. That Overwatch is ‘carried over’ into the first turn.


So yes as it is assumed the formation went on Overwatch in the previous action phase they can take a different action in the first turn (as long as it hasn't used it's overwatch).

From the FAQ
Quote:
Q: Can a unit remain on Overwatch into a following turn?
A: If the Formation hasn't fired by the end of the turn, then they can remain on Overwatch into the following turn.


To remain on overwatch into a following turn doesn't require an activation roll if it's at the end of the turn (all other formations have activated) but you would have to pass an activation roll if there are other formations left to activate (as it wouldn't be the end of the turn yet).
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Thank you guys :)
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
mattthemuppet wrote:
I don't know about the legitimacy of various rulesets and amendments (came to E:A too late to know about it), but I'd stick with Dave on this one. Besides, a "free*" activation like this, whenever in the turn it happens, seems to break the basic rules.

*free as in units not on OW have to pass an initiative test to go on OW, therefore staying on OW is still an activation and as such requires an initiative test


You only get two formations to put on Overwatch for 'free' (no initiative roll needed). Not exactly game breaking. IIRC the garrisons got a boost because the only thing they were doing were providing the opponent with an early target. Ergo the formations setting up on Overwatch in the 0th turn.
Author:  mattthemuppet [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Moscovian wrote:
You only get two formations to put on Overwatch for 'free' (no initiative roll needed). Not exactly game breaking.


I wasn't referring to formations starting on overwatch, but staying on overwatch (whether they did so from the beginning of the game or from an in turn activation) for multiple turns without taking an initiative test.

However, as dptdexys quoted from the FAQ, it can be read that fms already on overwatch can stay on overwatch into the following turn without taking an initiative test, although that would have to be after all other fms in that army have activated, so as not to be used as a "pass" or "stall" activation without a roll.

Seems a little odd to me, although it's similar with CAP (I believe? could be wrong), and comes at a maneuver disadvantage to the fm staying on OW, so it's not really a big issue.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Yes. Staying on Overwatch doesn't need an activation roll. Nor can you "pass" with a formation you intend to keep on Overwatch.
If you activated all your formation and only your Overwatch-formation are left you end your turn (and your oponent has free reign provided he has unactivated formations left) or activate them.
Author:  Ginger [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
Note there is a subtle, but important difference between remaining on OW and remaining on CAP:-

    Any unit starting on OW has the option of declaring an activation and doing something different during the turn.

    However, A/c that start on CAP may not subsequently activate during that turn.
    (They have to return to base to re-fuel and re-arm for a different mission, which only occurs during the end-phase)
Author:  Dave [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
That's odd. Are you allowed to declare that AC on CAP are returning to base at the end phase so you can activate them again next turn? Or do they remain on CAP forever?
Author:  Mephiston [ Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Garrison and Overwatch
In the end phase you get to chose. Either leave them on CAP or make a disengage move. If you stay on CAP you can't then activate them to ground attack, only make an interception of an enemy flyer that performs a ground attack approach move in the following turn.

That's the subtle difference between remaining on CAP and remaining on Overwatch.
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