Tactical Command
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Tournament List Mods
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=12473		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  nealhunt [ Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
For those of you who don't know what this thread is about, check this post for details.

The idea is to have a brief set of changes for the offical army lists that an event organizer can easily reference and/or distribute to attendees.  The key point here is to give it maximum utility to people who are less obsessive than those of us who frequent (read: live on) the boards.  In order to do that, try to keep them to the minimum you feel is necessary to improve the overall balance of the army list.  Point changes only are preferred but minor formation adjustments and possibly even minor unit adjustments are allowed.

I would like to have proposed "Tournament List" mods from each of the NetEA Army champions by the third week of May to get the final round of open comments and the NetERC votes done by the end of the month.

Post the proposed changes here, but if you want to start discussions please start a dedicated thread in the respective army areas.  At the risk of being a thread-nazi, I plan to be fairly ruthless in deleting commentary and discussion in this thread.  Stick with the latest proposed changes.

Roll call:

Hena - Codex SM and White Scars
The Real Chris - Steel Legion IG and Siege IG
nealhunt - Ork
TinyTim - Speed Freek and Feral Ork
Chroma - Eldar
Lord I - Black Legion
Steve 54 - Lost and Damned

Thanks in advance to everyone.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Apr 30, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Steel Legion Modifications

Army list changes:

  • Change Marauder Bombers to 250 points


Unit changes:

  • Deathstrikes: Lose 'no LoS', gain indirect
  • Baneblades become Mars pattern. Replace all Baneblade weapons with the following
    3 x Twin Heavy Bolters, 30cm, AP4+
    2 x Lascannon, 45cm, AT5+
    Autocannon, 45cm, AP5+/AT6+
    Demolisher Cannon, 30cm, AP3+/AT4+, Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward
    Main Battle Cannon, 75cm, AP3+/AT3+


Clarifications

  • Commissars can only be added to Imperial Guard units (no Titans, no Navy)





SiegeMaster Modifications

*Note* If you don't alter the emplacement/battery issue the 'other half' of the siege list problems stay (hard to hit batteries), indeed you can still make 'awful' armies of infantry and guns, they just get even less exciting!

Army list changes:

  • Regimental HQ > +75 points
  • Infantry Companies > +50 points
  • Flak > -25 points
  • Hellhounds > -25 points
  • Artillery Battery > no emplacements (so formation entry becomes 3 guns and 3 transports)
  • Artillery Company > -25 points, no transports ?(so formation entry becomes 9 guns and 9 emplacements)
  • Marauder Bombers to 250 points


Unit changes:

  • Deathstrikes: Lose 'no LoS', gain indirect (from IG list)
  • Sappers > add Small Arms ignore cover to heavy flamer, add Walker to unit notes.


Clarifications

  • Commissars can only be added to Imperial Guard units (no Navy)
  • Errata and FAQ as previously posted




Imperial Navy Modifications

Unit changes:

  • Marauder bomber: Goes to 3BP
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon May 05, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Not that I disagree with any of the suggestions, but are they the minimum you feel are needed?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed May 07, 2008 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Does 'minimum' mean:

A - A minimum balanced base from which other variant lists can then be developed with a surety.

B - A minimum to balance the list for use in tournaments in the current gaming environment (Units which are not powerful enough can be ignored, as they're not imbalancing tournaments as nobody takes them).


TRC's big list above falls into the 'A' category, and I'd support it as a practical 'minimum' for the Net:EA's purposes.
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu May 08, 2008 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Closer to B.  The idea is to provide a tool for less hard-core people to use in events - something quick and easy for tourney organizers to use as an enhancement.

I am thinking something like the minimum it would take to keep a person from feeling like the list they were facing was being exploited in some way or that any choices couldn't be considered because they were seriously underpowered.  Things like style or flexibility don't need to be considered.

Definitely not A.  It doesn't need to have everything needed to move forward on NetEA lists.  Those should be separate and comprehensive.


I hesitate to pick on specific items because I don't want to step on someone else's agreed ground but I feel like I need an illustration.  I completely understand the Commisars issue.  People like it for consistency and stylistic reasons.  However, 2d6 Commisars at normal tournament point levels (2700-3000, up to an occasional 4000) isn't really unbalanced, just occasionally too random.  If it were me (and, again,  it's not) that is important enough to be on the "overhaul" list but not on a minimalist "we think these are necessary for balanced tournaments" list.

The Ork list had pretty minimal changes anyway but to give an idea, for the tourney mods I'm thinking:

Oddboyz - +25 points (still questionable, may leave this off)
Stompas - add Big/Uge options at 400/575
Supastompa - +25 points (less than the full +50 that was in the change docs)
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu May 08, 2008 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Changes to SF and Ferals are as previously suggested. Will post them again soon.
Author:  Chroma [ Fri May 09, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Suggested Eldar changes up: here
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed May 14, 2008 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
So, we're down to needing the recap from TinyTim, plus the chaos stuff from Lord_I, and Steve54.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu May 15, 2008 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Here's the SF & Feral proposed updates:

Speed Freak

Warband increase in cost to 200 / 375 / 550
Outriders increase in cost to 150 / 250 / 350 with no upgrades.
Fortress Mobs decrease in cost to 275 / 475 / 675.

Ferals

No FF from Junkatrukks
Boarboyz drop speed to 20cm and increase save to 5+
Catapults restricted to upto 3
Orkeausaurus increased in cost to 175 points
Junka Brigade point costs changed to 175 / 300 / na & Nob+Junkatrukk added to Extras for 50 points each and restricted to upto 1.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue May 27, 2008 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
I had a talk with Matt Otter at the weekend (He's the main UK tournaments organiser).

He'd far rather that any list mods were done via points values, rather than stat changes.

I don't think he'll adopt any change list that doesn't take this mostly into account.

Worth considering, I thought.
Author:  Lord Inquisitor [ Tue May 27, 2008 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
There's some logic to that, although in many cases the root problem is with the stat and not the points.

It would be possible to do a pure points-value-associated tournament mods and leave the stat changes to the full review.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue May 27, 2008 8:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Surely Matt would have no problems with stat changes that don't affect stuff much (e.g. vultures going to range 90cm or indirect deathstrikes)?
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue May 27, 2008 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament List Mods
Try asking him (He's 'Braveheart' on this forum).

He seemed emphatic that he would not consider stat changes.
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