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Rules Review Process 2008

 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:47 pm 
Purestrain
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What you want effectively already happened in some way Hena. I know you don't like some of the experimental rules, but they were all up for comment. The negative feedback on them was not outweighed by those in favour on anything I saw.  But the point you continually seem to miss is that everyone should play them together as a set (like the last experimental rules) so that a chop decision can be made on things in the long run. If everyone is using all sorts of different rule systems as you would have, it is not possible to work out what should be done.

The handbook is clearly labelled as experimental rules, and no one is forcing anyone to use them. They are all in one convenient set for evaluation, and a decision can be made at a future time on them after sufficient playtesting from those actually prepared to do it. Furthermore timetables may be silly to you but they are very important to most other people. I was not happy that the last experimental rules were over two years late, and neither were at least 40 other people who signed a petition.

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Frankly I've been playing the 'handbook rules ' for a long time now, as the vast majority of these rules changes have been floating around for ages.

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:34 pm 
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Hena & Mark, the two of you would be better off if you took a long deep breath and followed Cybershadow's advice.  I read this latest round of spitting and just shook my head.  Gee, Mark is being accused of being abrasive and Hena is supposedly being unreasonable...  There's a day that ends in 'y'.

The one thing the two of you do agree on is your belief that Neal will do the right thing for the game.  Any discussion beyond that is a waste of time, builds resentment between the two of you, and threatens to fracture the community even further.  

Certainly the two of you can wait until Neal pokes his head in here and waves his magic wand (I suddenly had this awful vision of Neal in a tutu, fairie wings, carrying a sparkly wand with an Ork skull on the end of it -shudder-).

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:38 pm 
Purestrain
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(Hena @ Dec. 28 2007,21:05)
QUOTE
Rules review was late because the people who should have been doing them did not. Not because there was not some magic deadline (or there has been several but they have not been respected, take your pick). What I mean is that a rule that is not tested doesn't turn to be correct one at some random point in time. It could be correct one at all times, but you need to test that to be sure.

Hena, ultimately, the only reason this conversation is even necessary is because timetables were broken.  That's the point.

I want to play E:A like everyone else. Rulebook is that book that should list rules. Experimental rules should not be there (or they should be separated very noticeably). You want them conveniently listed, sure enough. But that is not the point of a rulebook.


1. You already have a rulebook.
2. You also have a separate listing of experimental rules.
3. You also have rulebook with experimental rules integrated into the appropriate sections for ease of use.

Please don't deny the last to those who actually find that helpful and easier to use.

As for discussions. Yeah right. Only thing that I see is flames for the people not "conforming" to your wishes.

Edit: I have not read the handbook, nor do I intend to. Primarily as I want a clean listing of differences to main rulebook (until that gets updated or there is actual NetEA rulebook that is credible). But also as I've been told to sod off, so I will respect that wish. Everything that I currently play is based (not the same in all cases, but almost) on Neals change docs. As long as the handbook is same, then it seems that I'm following it as well.

No one forcing you to use handbook. If you want a separate listing and the main rules those are still available as I just pointed out.  For many people, and especially newer players, the handbook is also helpful (or so I've been told).

Also disagreeing with someone's arguments is not the same as telling them to 'sod off' or flaming. There is no flaming, there is no telling you to leave,  I have simply disagreed with your arguments. If I'd listened to you, nothing would have happened still.  Your comments here are on record though for people to see, maybe write that angry post and throw it away before you post next time...   :;):

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:47 am 
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(Moscovian @ Dec. 28 2007,21:34)
QUOTE
Gee, Mark is being accused of being abrasive and Hena is supposedly being unreasonable...  There's a day that ends in 'y'.

The one thing the two of you do agree on is your belief that Neal will do the right thing for the game.   Any discussion beyond that is a waste of time, builds resentment between the two of you, and threatens to fracture the community even further.  

Certainly the two of you can wait until Neal pokes his head in here and waves his magic wand (I suddenly had this awful vision of Neal in a tutu, fairie wings, carrying a sparkly wand with an Ork skull on the end of it -shudder-).

I didn't accuse Hena of being unreasonable, and Hena didn't accuse me of being abrasive (specifically).  :;):

Rather it seems to me that Hena expressed a reasonable feeling of having been excluded from the process.
I'd rather the reasons were clear to everyone, (not least including me). It is possible that I do owe an apology for my abrasiveness and if so I offer it. Likely it has been largely born of frustration with ERC bs over the last several years. For the record let me state that Hena and I actually agree on most things I think...

I also think a lot of energy is expended due to confusion and misunderstandings over the status of various elements of the process, and people have often been arguing at cross purposes. I'd rather that it was at least more clear what elements of process we are disagreeing about, if anything. The whole point I opened the thread was to hear an airing of views to gain some clarity and understand what the obstacles and ways of moving forward are from here.  I really want to hear what everyone has to say. I think forcing people to shut up is more likely to cause problems in the future than letting peoples views be heard.

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:09 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
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Right. I am tired of this.

This type of division is not helping the cause. This is one of the main reasons why I think that we need a guidance here.

Therefore, without casting stones, I will close this thread and re-open it when Neal has had a chance to look it over. Neal: Let me know when you want this re-opened, if you arent able to do it yourself as mod.

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 Post subject: Rules Review Process 2008
PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:34 pm 
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This topic has now been re-opened. I welcome debate, but please keep this friendly and curteous.

Thanks.

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