Could you explain your thoughts / discussions further. In the normal Tournament game, the "HQ" is represented by a supreme commander (who gets a reroll for his command). What exactly are you suggesting here?

1. Play the game with multiple tournament 'armies' of 5000 points, each of which gets a supreme commander who can reroll for those formations under his comman?.
2. The addition of a single "army HQ formation", that includes the "commander in chief" (a kind of supreme-supreme commander) who can reroll for any formation, and the destruction of which provides a new Objective?
3. Both 5000 point armies and the "commander in chief" formation?

Mmm, this is a cool idea. Rather than having them coming from off board planes could have airstrips on a table that size that they need to leave from and get back to, which allows them to be attacked on the ground!

As it stands we play one Army each, really large and follows the army limits. Being able to take a second army (with 2nd SC, 2nd set of Deathstrikes, etc.) is a definite powerful addition for the player. So, in order to be eligible to bring 2nd army, one must purchase a level of Administratia/Command to oversee the Joint Operations. Additional Armies will come in full 5,000 point packages (to prevent players from taking 10 x Deathstrike only armies) . The New Command is a unit 100 pt upgrade in the additional army whose destruction now becomes a full fledged Victory Goal. You want three armies? No Problem, buy a Joint Commander and 4900 pts more and you can have three, but you risk offering another victory goal to the opponent by doing so.

ON the strategic deployment area, why would anyone choose to setup in it? Although I do like that that is where the Airbases are physically located.... And maybe Ammo Dumps where if the convoy can make it to the Deathstrikes they can reload...

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~Laserwolf

Yes, we know, the game was intended to be played in the 2000-5000 points range...

Well that works for me - nice idea!

• I think I would consider limiting the "Joint Operations" command to rather less than 5000 points, and I would set a minimum cost that must be used (not just the additional 100 points for the joint CinC) - do you need a maximum for this command?
• Perhaps you could also treat it as managing the player's strategic reserves;
  • So these formations *must* be set-up in the "Strategic area"
  • Would you control how these reserves are assigned to front-line armies (perhaps a new activation that combines movement with a change of command?)
  • This also raises a question about commanding different races (eg Eldar and Marines), and how these "Strategic" considerations are impacted. (Perhaps the Strategy roll is that of the CinC, but this would need carefull thought)
• Also, would you allow the new "CinC" character a re-roll that could be assigned anywhere?
• Finally, perhaps you should get 1 objective point for each "army" that is entirely Broken or destroyed (including the strategic reserves) rather than restricting it

- thoughts?

I agree that you could develop the "strategic" concept further - IIRC, in earlier versions of Epic, airfields were positioned on-table and damaging would have an impact on air operations. I am sure you (or others) could come up with some simple rules. It also raises a question whether each "army" has a separate airfield, fuel dump and / or ammo dump, and how the relevant formations might be affected (+1 to activate relevant air / ground units, -1 to air / ground shooting?). I do like the idea of a convoy mechanism to re-arm Deathstrikes, though the use of additional "armies" also gets around the 0-1 restriction rather neatly.

As to actually deploying there, they cease to become 1st strike artillery/shooting targets (ranges are halved shooting into or out of Strategic area) as these forces are 10's of miles in the rear - though air assults and teleportation may still possible.

As an alternative to the idea of needing to take a complete 5000 point block to gain access to another commander (which I like), I suggest being able to take 1 supreme commander core formation in every 6 core formations bought. Eligibility for extremely rare 0-1 units (not properly unique units which would stay at 0-1) could run at the same level as eligibility for supreme commander core formations. This would give a check on all deathstrike armies whilst also allowing the choice of deliberately not upgrading core formations to keep them cheap (and weak) and unlocking more rare commanders and rare units.

I'd also like to see higher level SC units become available once a certain minimum of core formations are met. Eg the first SC in a guard army is the standard regimental commander unit in charge of 5 companies, with 10 companies, a Leviathan regimental HQ is unlocked and with 15 a Capitol Imperialis. Perhaps the 15 company unlock level for the CI is too high though....

PS this is my first post. Hello to you all.

Firstly Larree, welcome and I am glad to see it was this thread that prompted you to post for the first time!

Our thought was not 5K to give access to a commander, but the requirement to take a 2nd command unit (Joint Operations Command or JOC), tied to the added army, that also became an added Victory condition for the opponent should the JOC stand die (by whatever means). As an added Army, it is simply an addition to the core army whose theatre the fight is in, the "main" army so to speak. Strategy rating is based on the main army and it must always be greater in points value than the added forces (maybe even larger than the sum on the added forces. Because our intent is to facilitate enormous point values in play, a 5,000 point block is a full representative complement of reinforcements from the new army (no racial mixing by the way). You cannot get a 2nd Deathstrike or a 2nd Avatar summoning and 2nd Wraithgate without spending the full 5,000 to get it.

On the Airbase issue, we are looking at the following: The first 1,000 points of airpower can come from anywhere to support the battle, but the relative strain on the support systems to refuel/rearm gets quite difficult for strategic airbases to support, therefore regional ones have to be tapped. For each 1,000 points of air power after the first 1,000 an airstrip must be placed on the board and the 1,000 points of airpower must be parked there whenever they are not on an active mission. They must launch from there and re-land there, so preventing enemy AA umbrellas will be critical to their survival. The Airstrip must be physically large enough to place the models within it. The airstrip will add +1 to the initiative roll for the aircraft assigned to it. Some thought is being given to making it a static fortification (kind of like the Cadians fort) and if destroyed, the aircraft would lose the +1 bonus.

We like the ammo dump concept, but if there is no benefit the Eldar can gain (or some equivalent Eldarish system) then I doubt it will happen.

Next up is a discussion on how many additional objectives (if any) make sense for this large of a board. Because we are basically playing on 8 - 6'x4' tables it seems reasonable that there be more than two.

We also shall be requiring that the blitzkrieg objective be placed outside of your deployment zone.

More to come as we dream it up.

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~Laserwolf

Yes, we know, the game was intended to be played in the 2000-5000 points range...

Alrighty. Lsrwolf and I have done some brainstorming about some ideas presented here and come up with some more concrete proposals for our larger games that we like to play.

1. Joint Operations Liason Officer (JOLO): Taking one will allow you to field another/different army within your force. Has to be the same race, e.g. if playing Imperial Guard (IG), it has to be another IG force and not space marines, etc. The form the JOLO takes will vary from list to list. Lsrwolf and I have concentrated our ideas on IG and Eldar since that is what we play. For the IG it is one stand that will have the stats of a standard IG basic infantry: CC 6+, FF 5+, small arms, - armour save, 15cm move, and if desired a "free" Chimera transport. For the Eldar, it is a 75pt upgrade to an Eldar unit (EA +1 non MW, no free transport). It must be assigned to the same formation that has the new army's Supreme Commander in it. To compensate for the advantage that the JOLO gives you (my being able to take Elysians really compensates for the lack of manueverability in the Steel Legion) if the JOLO is destroyed for any reason (watch out for dangerous terrain!!) your opponent gains 1 goal.

2. Aircraft. Based on an idea given here we have ran with it. Your first 1000pts of aircraft are assumed to be based out of theatre and operate as normal. Any additional points of aircraft must be based in theatre (on the board). For each 1000pts of additional aircraft (or fraction thereof) you get a "free" primitive airstrip. Just the basic stuff to operate the aircraft deployed forward. A player can choose to purchase a better airbase if they want to. A prepared airstrip cost will be variable. Its cost will be based on the miximum number of aircraft that can be based there. In the case of the IG that would be 12 aircraft (6 x Thunderbolt squadrons at 150pts=900pts=maximum aircraft based). The actual cost will be how prepared you want the base to be. A prepared strip with aircraft revetments that give a 6+ RA save (10pts) would cost the IG 120pts. A prepared strip with revetments giving a 5+ RA save (20pts) would cost the IG 240pts. A prepared strip with revetments giving a 4+ RA save (30pts) would cost the IG 360pts. A prepared airstrip also gives each aircraft a CC 6+, FF 5+ if engaged. This represents the ground crew, armourers, cooks, etc, but also, more importantly, the security personel assigned to a permanent facility. A primitive strip has no save for the aircraft other than their own intrinsic save and no CC or FF if the aircraft are engaged. To make up for this increased vulnerability aircraft squadrons operating from an on-board strip get a +1 to their activation rolls. Aircraft squadrons accumulate and remove blast markers as normal, even when aircraft are destroyed on ground. One might make this requirment reversed. The first 1000pts are based on-board and any further points are based off-board as normal. This makes a bit more sense as fewer aircraft are typically forward based than ones further back.

3. Resupply. We discussed this and its a tougher one to come up with workable ideas. Basically, its a resupply for one shot weapons. The resupply unit must make its way from its start point to the formation to be resupplied. In the case of the IG this would be Deathstrikes, Vultures, and Valkyries. Vultures and Valkyries can be resupplied from the same dump, Deathstrikes would have their own seperate dump. A supply dump is based off-map. The supply column enters from off-map on or within 10cm of any road leading off a board edge in your deployment area. Your opponent picks what road that particular supply truck enters from. A supply dump costs 50pts. The supply colummn consists of 1 (or more?) "trucks". We weren't sure what stats a "truck" or supply column should have. CC 6+, FF -, 6 armour save (armoured trucks?), 20cm move. This idea really applies mostly to the IG. For the Eldar, the only thing that is 0-1 and a one shot wonder (kinda) is the Avatar. Lsrwolf and I discussed this and have tenatively has come up with the following idea: an Avatar may be summoned to different armies on different turns (this simulates the multiple effect of purchasing different armies with a 0-1 unit) and the Avstst may stay on the board for more than one turn in the positions it was summoned. This simulates the negation of the one shot effect. Essentially the Avatar is one shot as it is removed from the table at the end of the turn. It gets to engage once. Sure, from its finishing position it may be able to support other engagements, but it is essentially one shot. Not sure what points value to assign this effect and if it should have some type of "facility" assigned to it or cost. The IG resupply effect is vulnerable by having its trucks destroyed. There would need to be some type of appropriate vulnerability for the Eldar equivalent. Thoughts?

Like the JOLO and Arifields a lot, though the IG JOLO can hitch a ride in the SC's Chimaera - there's room.

The supply idea is pretty cool, but would be difficult to execute in game. What about this:

Supply Dump - 250 pts. (or so)
Replace one objective on your side of the table with a Supply Dump. While you control this objective, All formations with a unit within 15cm gain the following: All weapons with the One Shot Special Rule are instead Slow Firing. All Weapons with the Slow Firing special rule instead fire normally. If the Supply Dump objective is contested, this benefit is lost until the objective is no longer contested. If the opponent gains control of the objective, they destroy the dump. Remove the objective from the table. It counts as being controlled by the opponent for the remainder of the game for all Victory Conditions.

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I think that might unbalance Manticores and Deathstrikes quite a bit. By having the vulnerable supply trucks, the Eldar have the opportunity to cut off the supplies to these powerful formations.

Another thought on off table Aircraft. They are not only off table, but off world. These craft could come from the spacecraft.

I am currently laying out the Epic equivalent for BFG, allowing point for point purchase of BFG ships and a pre-Epic game - BFG battle, where the survivors are what appear in the skies overhead in the Epic game.

The ship conversion table shall arrive soon. Unless some of you have done this already of course.

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~Laserwolf

Yes, we know, the game was intended to be played in the 2000-5000 points range...

Given the other topics on campaigns etc, how has the super-sizing games idea come along?

And following up a thought from another thread, How do you sort out 'activation spam' where one side significantly out-activates the other?