semajnollissor wrote:
PitFiend wrote:
Retaining the Initiative gets used almost every single game I play...
Well sure it often gets used, but the way in which it gets used is fairly narrow. I may be wrong, but it seems like retaining initiative is mostly used when a player activates a support unit to place BMs on a target formation and position for support, then retain and engage that formation. That works because assualts all but guarantee a formation will be broken as a result (often removing an available activation from an opponent so the result is a wash). The only other common time it is used is to ensure aircraft and artillary can be used before the opponent's similar formations can affect them. Besides those two scenarios, how often is it actually worthwhile to retain? Only in rare cases, I think.
Or when you've got multiple formations in position at the start of the turn to threaten multiple enemy formations and vice versa. Game I played last weekend, at the end of the first turn, when I'd run out of activations, my opponent lined up two Commander led multi-unit assaults on my front line at the end of the first turn. He should have won initiative (Eldar v Guard), assaulted, then retained to assault a second time. (As it turned out, I fluked out, won the roll and annihilated his assaulting force with Sustain, Retain, Sustain, before it got to move.)
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You never had someone go "ground attack with Thunderhawk 1, Retain, ground assault on the same formation with Thunderhawk 2 and all the infantry inside it, aaaand, everything's dead"?
Of course, heck I've done that myself. I'd counter with the question of how often you see the nearly indentical maneuver where a commander unit is used instead of a lander. Probably a drastically fewer number of times.
It's really not nearly identical. The Commander combined assault is rarely as effective as a well set up assault through Retain, so you'll see it less.
Example: You've got 2 Tac Marine units in Rhinos, including a Commander, in assault range of the opponent's Steel Legion Infy Company. No one has any blast markers.
Option 1: Advance Tac unit 1, firing on the Infy Coy, and leaving them within 15cm of the Infy Coy, Retain, Assault with Tac unit 2 and Supporting Fire with unit 1.
Option 2: The Commander makes Tac units 1 and 2 Assault as one formation.
Both need a single 2+ dice roll to succeed.
With Option 1, the assault has +2 for blast markers in favour of the Marines, and +2 for double outnumbering in favour of the Guard, which cancel each other.
With Option 2, the assault has no bonus for blast markers, and +1 for outnumbering in favour of the Guard, so the Marines start off 1 point down.
Also, with option 1, Tac unit 1 gets to fire with Missile Launchers, then to fire a second time using Firefight. (And, if, in this example, if the Missile Launchers make a kill, the double outnumbering drops to a single outnumber, putting the fight 1 point up in favour of the Marines from the start.)
And, if the Marines do ultimately lose, under Option 1, only Tac unit 2 breaks, where under Option 2, both will...
I know which I prefer to use if I can.
