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What was the rationale for changing single Warhound costs?

 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:53 pm 
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Chroma wrote:
And, just to nip it in the bud, the desire to "spend all your points", is *NOT* min-maxing.


Yep. Never implied it was. For tournament games, it is always best to get the most out of your points.

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:15 am 
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I have to agree with E&C. Warhounds really are worth 275.

For the IG the 25 point "gap" can always be solved by taking TWO warhounds ;)


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 1:46 am 
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Or an Infantry Platoon for your RHQ...

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:26 am 
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clausewitz wrote:
For the IG the 25 point "gap" can always be solved by taking TWO warhounds ;)


Not really an option. Once you kill one, the other is auto broken. That and the loss of a 2nd activation is not really worth the 25 point saving.

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:28 am 
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Frogbear: He meant taking two seperate warhounds, which would mean no wasted 25 points at the end of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:08 am 
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Oh! Serves me right for posting on the run. :P

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:08 am 
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Yup, as Zombo said I meant two single warhound formations.

Apart from anything else 1+ initiative units in the IG army are very useful.


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:52 am 
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Concur. Play with them a bit. The difference between taking a pair and taking 2 singles in terms of +1 activation, extra resilience from being broken, extra BM placing and target selection options is around about 50 points for a pair.

I'd actually figure that taking 4 single warhounds is a bit of a sub-optimum way of using the 1000 point WE allowance (no aircraft in that case, thunderbolt formations are almost a necessity for a good tournament army)


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Have to agree that single warhounds are worth at least 275. They are often used in 'spoiling attacks' in the first turn and if they survive, become increasingly powerfull as the game continues with the destruction of enemy formations capable of killing the Warhounds. Spamming them just increases the potential of each individual unit.

As an alternative costing approach, perhaps we could introduce a rule that pairs of scout titans in E:A must always be combined into a single formation.


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:57 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Gotta be TRC, no?

No but he did take 3 Warhounds in a Steel Legion army.

The player who took 4 also had 3 Terminator formations in his list.


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:09 am 
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Quote:
As an alternative costing approach, perhaps we could introduce a rule that pairs of scout titans in E:A must always be combined into a single formation.

Um... That doesn't acknowledge the fact that a single warhound is worth 275 and that a pair is worth 500.


Last edited by Fortis on Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:14 am 
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TRC did bring 4 warhounds in his marine army to one club challenge. To make matters worse he could only play the Saturday so another player had to step in for the sunday!


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:24 pm 
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Fortis wrote:
Quote:
As an alternative costing approach, perhaps we could introduce a rule that pairs of scout titans in E:A must always be combined into a single formation.

Um... That doesn't acknowledge the fact that a single warhound is worth 275 and that a pair is worth 500.

Well it is a halfway house to a cap on warhounds by reducing the number of Warhound formations. It is worth noting that no-one takes pairs of warhounds (or Ferals for that matter) because as has been noted above, they are much more effective as single unit formations.

The 275 per singleton was introduced to recognise this, though personally I am not conviced it succeeds, hence the suggestion that where more than one scout titan is fielded, they must be paired. This would still allow the single Warhound + Reaver combination that has gained popularity since the Reaver upgraded stats were introduced, and the reduction in Warhound formations would make the support for Marines more reasonable. (I might add that if this rule was adopted, it might allow the Eldar to field a singleton Reaver at 350 points while retaining the Reaver pair at 650).

Note I would suggest retaining the 275 cost or even increasing it, because in a straight comparison with imperial SHT for example, the Warhound is faster, more durable and has better firepower. The Shadowsword is only better at range in a titan killer role due to the Volcano cannon, while the Baneblade is generally inferior to the Shadowsword.

Can anyone remember why singleton Warhounds were permitted in the first place, because they have always been 'overpowered' as such, (and the Chaos Feral titans have only reinforced this view)?


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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 7:20 pm 
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From a Fluff standpoint of fiew: After the Horus Heresy Warhounds are forced to work in pairs. SO single Warhounds would be a battle remain as it's companion would has been destroyed.

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 Post subject: Re: What was the rationale for changing single Warhound cost
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:45 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
From a Fluff standpoint of fiew: After the Horus Heresy Warhounds are forced to work in pairs. SO single Warhounds would be a battle remain as it's companion would has been destroyed.


I like it. Only allow a single Warhound if it's an odd-man-out. Easiest way to do that, would be a 0-1 restriction on the Single Warhound. It gets around any lengthy wording to get to the same effect.

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