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NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31

 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:07 pm 
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pixelgeek wrote:
Just a quick comment.

If this is a Tournament pack, do the rules need the training scenarios?


I'd like to keep them in there. New players ought to find this useful as well. The original name I was going to go with was "Rules Compendium" but Neal suggested "Tournament Pack" and I thought it was a better fit.

On the ToC, I think I solved the problem. So long as I generate the ToC on the latest version of OO in Windows only it works...

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
Page 16:
Once again, the footnote'd be better applied to the title of the box.


On these, OO won't let you put a footnote inside a frame. I could always hide the real footnote and put a fake one in the frame but it won't auto-update its number when new footnotes are added. That felt too problematic to me, so I went with the ugly way of doing it.

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Page 17:
"Be in range and" should probably be "Be in range of and"


Unless it's in GW's errata I'm not touching the rules.

Quote:
In FN#12, "Terrain blocks the LOF, units don’t" is kind of unhelpful immediately after something saying war engines block LOF. In fact, that entire FAQ just seems misleading. I think it needs a rewrite.

In the same footnote, the specific FAQ dealing with units with Small Arms and suppression is redundant with the one immediately before it.

The final FAQ note should probably have "no enemy from the target formation" instead of just "no enemy". Then again, it effectively doesn't matter.


Neal ^^^

Quote:
FN#13: For some reason, BM now seems hilarious. BM. Hehehe. Speaking of, its capitalization is inconsistent.

"Get a BM" should probably be "Place a BM" for clarity.


Ug, chancing all the appropriate "Blast Markers" to "Blast markers" is going to suck.

Quote:
FN#13: "for causing them" should probably be "by causing them".

The final FAQ in this note is confusing because it implies you COULD fire at something if it was out of range. You can't. It doesn't clear up an ambiguity - it asks if you can do something you explicitly and obviously can't do in the rules. I found it actively confusing. I'd strongly recommend removing it. Seriously.

FN#14: the second FAQ should be "What about splitting" instead of "Is the answer about splitting". And add a question mark at the end of the sentence.

The third FAQ asks a question that's in the main rules on the exact same page. I'd recommend removing it (if the answer is "it's in the main FAQ, I'd recommend taking it out of THAT, too).

FN#14: First FAQ should say "has a mixture", not "have a mixture". It also might be better entirely rephrased as: "Can a formation with a mixture of AP and AT shots destroy transports with the AT shots and then shoot the infantry that was inside those transports with the AP shots?"

Since the experimental hit allocation rules wouldn't be included in this document (I assume), perhaps that reference should be eliminated from the first FAQ answer?

In the second FAQ answer, I think "stack" or "are cumulative" would be clearer than "apply".

I'd recommend amending the fourth FAQ to read: "One unit that has a line of fire and is within range may not shoot for each Blast marker on the formation.", since that's what the rule actually reads now. Also, what the hell is this question doing here?

The fifth FAQ answer should read "If the formation consisted of 4 infantry and 4 LVs" instead of "If the formation consisted of 4 infantry instead of 4 tanks". Clarity and all that. It would also be good if we could be consistent about the use of numerals vs. words for numbers, but that may be asking a bit much.

In the sixth answer, Rhinos is not capitalized twice and Marines is not capitalized once. It also might fit decently in the previous section.

Page 21:

If the FAQ is supposed to apply, I'd strongly recommend removing the "no placement restrictions apply" bit in the main rules text. It only causes confusion as is, IMO.



Neal ^^^

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:49 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
FN#21: The second FAQ question asks something that is explicitly explained in the rules text.

FN#22: The first question asks something that is explicitly explained in the rules text. The second question, fourth and fifth questions should be combined, since they're the same thing.


Neal ^^^

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Page 27:
The table's down in the footnotes again.


If I put it above the footnotes the layout gets screwy, this was the safer way.

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Page 28:
Step 4 should be Step IV. It would be good, IMO, if the FAQs were on the pages where the relevant rules text was - for example, the FAQ from p. 27 about what to do when an assault stalls out fits better here.


Neal ^^^

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
*insert my normal comments about en and em dashes, hyphens, multiplication signs (some of these are errors on GW's part in the original)*
Generally doc seems to be using en dashes for everything now, even things that should be hyphenated (eg, step–by–step, these need to be hyphens -) and then some rogue em dashes are popping up.


If they're in the FAQs point them out, I'll take care of them.

Quote:
Also some general spacing things, eg. headings currently having equal space above and below them in what looks like your 2nd level headers, tightening up table spacing in places like 7+ to hit etc.


Do you mean the X.X or the X.X.X headers? I think all the styles have a .1cm margin below and nothing above.

What's wrong with the spacing in the 7+ to hit and etc.?

Quote:
Also, 'cms' and 'cm'. GW mucked this up to start with, even using both inconsistently in the same paragraph in places. If you could find and replace that silliness that'd be great :)


I won't do it in the rules, but the FAQ I'm less hesitant about. The reason why I'm being so obstinate about touching the rules is it's going to to be the harmless stuff like your suggesting giving way to bigger touch-ups and eventually re-writes. The intent of this doc is to present the rules, as they are written, cleanly. Bump, scratches, scrapes and all.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:17 pm 
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What's the semi-official successor to what?


As I understand it, the NetEA is the semi-official successor to GW's development. NetEA produced the FAQs currently on GW's website, helped produce the errata, etc.

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The rule, or the FAQ? Everything looks right to me.


The listing in the table of contents.

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Up to the AC's. I pushed a bit on some names but it's their call on their list.


Not necessarily officially, just in this instance (the Table of Contents) for space concerns.

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Right, they are Stigmatus Covenant Covens. Apparently someone made an agreement with Stigmatus and they decided to organize their rabble as covens.


Riiiiiiiiight.

Quote:
Right on both of them, but I'm still not touching the rules.


I'll give you a nickel...

Regarding rules:
I think it'd be worth compiling another errata document then, just for grammatical and spelling stuff. We can send it off to GW and see what happens - worse comes to worse it'll come back with a blessing and no actual action.

Regarding FAQs:
Where should I post the FAQ nitpickings, then?

Quote:
Why are the italic numerals sans-serif but the rest of the font isn't? This appears elsewhere, and it confuses the hell out of me.

Got specific section numbers?


In italic text, any number seems to be sans serif. I think it's the font, but it's weird.

Quote:
On these, OO won't let you put a footnote inside a frame. I could always hide the real footnote and put a fake one in the frame but it won't auto-update its number when new footnotes are added. That felt too problematic to me, so I went with the ugly way of doing it.


I was afraid you'd say that.

Perhaps in the final draft add a fake footnote in a logical place as well as the original footnote, just so it's more noticable (yes, the text is obvious, but still).

Quote:
Ug, chancing all the appropriate "Blast Markers" to "Blast markers" is going to suck.


Case-sensitive search and replace. You'll be fine.

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If I put it above the footnotes the layout gets screwy, this was the safer way.


Perhaps write a bunch of invisible text specifically for this page, then put the table in the middle of it? Right now it kind of creates the impression the tables are unofficial.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:25 pm 
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All page number refer to those in the pdf, not on the pages.

Turns out it's hard to check which en dashes are FAQ and new errors and which are on the GW rules, owing to the imbecility of whoever typeset and edited the original book. So in some places GW got it right in the rules, but it is now wrong in this pdf, in some cases it is right on both places, wrong in both, or just wrong in the new FAQ etc. As i'm not going to cross check every dash in the pdf against the printed rules, what follows i probably a bit hit and miss. If someone who knows what they're doing (pixlegeek?) goes through the master document it'd be easy just to correct and make everything consistant going through, just takes ages to type it out here – far easier to just do it than point them all out :P

I'd go for find an replace it all (see the timeline 300 rules thread for how to do it selectively for hyphens and dashes), but that will change stuff in the GW rules …

p18, 'Can AP weapons target AV’s just' -> remove apostrophe
p22, 'Barrage templates - is it possible to' en dash –
p23, 'action per se - the initiative' en dash
p25, assault procedure, put an en – not a hyphen after each roman numeral. This look to be a copying error and is correct in the print book but not your pdf.
p25, 'other case…so you can’t' give the elipsis some space
p27, assault mod table, figures in right hand column are not aligned and crazy space between columns
p31, '(try saying that ten times fast ; ))' is this meant to be an emoticon or have a semi-colon and a right parenthesis got lost? looks odd anyway
p61, everything on there should be an en dash – no a hyphen

stopped at army list, since every page starting here has a lot of micro-typographic corrections wanting in any case and i assume this links back to the compendium tables as well.


spacing stuff:
headings: yea the x.x.xs. In general the formatting of the document gives quite a grainy look – if you look at p32 there are a lot of little bits of bold text floating around every few lines, but space has not been used to give them meaning. I would suggest something like this:
Image
This will make stuff run longer, but there are places where you can make space back such as your bullet points.

tables: 7+ tables is actually a mild example, see the assault modifier table for a worse offender. The problem with the space is that there is far too much of it. You want people to read across rows of information, so putting the columns as far apart as possible discourages this. Again a lot of this is inherited from the GW original, where the little tables in the rules are generally poorly composed.
Even things like the barrage table, there is so much space between columns.

cm/cms fair enough :)

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Simulated Knave wrote:
Regarding rules:
I think it'd be worth compiling another errata document then, just for grammatical and spelling stuff. We can send it off to GW and see what happens - worse comes to worse it'll come back with a blessing and no actual action.


Have at it if you like, but I'd suggest doing it on the PDFs up on their site. Mostly because I'd rather they not get wind of this thing and tell us to take it down.

Quote:
Regarding FAQs:
Where should I post the FAQ nitpickings, then?


Here's fine unless Neal says otherwise. On the FAQ grammar and stuff, I'm taking care of them as you point them out. For the rearranging/re-writing stuff that's Neal's call.

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In italic text, any number seems to be sans serif. I think it's the font, but it's weird.


Ya, it's the font.

Quote:
Perhaps in the final draft add a fake footnote in a logical place as well as the original footnote, just so it's more noticable (yes, the text is obvious, but still).


That still involves having to go through and manually change the numbers when a new FAQ is added. That's not something I want to get into. Automate everything!

Quote:
Case-sensitive search and replace. You'll be fine.


It wasn't quite that simple, as headers need title case. Whatever, it's done now.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:47 pm 
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p35 (pdf) 'Notes would apply the ability to all assault attacks - CC' en dash –

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:57 pm 
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On the spacing above h3s, any idea how to stop OO from adding it when the h3 is the first thing in a column? It looks weird.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Quote:
In italic text, any number seems to be sans serif. I think it's the font, but it's weird.

Ya, it's the font.

That's just how that version of garmond is. If you look at Adobe's garamond pro version instead, compared to the garamond used in this file you'll find the italic figures are more 'serify' – eg the 4 and the 1 have a foot, the 3 keeps a swell.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:05 pm 
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Dave wrote:
On the spacing above h3s, any idea how to stop OO from adding it when the h3 is the first thing in a column? It looks weird.

In that case the solution is probably to make a new style for the first para of body text after each h3, and add the space in there instead. But this is annoying as you'll have to go through put a different style on each first para.

InDesign just ignores 'space before' if it's at the top of a text frame :(

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
That's just how that version of garmond is. If you look at Adobe's garamond pro version instead, compared to the garamond used in this file you'll find the italic figures are more 'serify' – eg the 4 and the 1 have a foot, the 3 keeps a swell.


I've got Adobe 9 on the machine I grabbed all the fonts from. It's Garamond 2.4.

Quote:
In that case the solution is probably to make a new style for the first para of body text after each h3, and add the space in there instead. But this is annoying as you'll have to go through put a different style on each first para.

InDesign just ignores 'space before' if it's at the top of a text frame :(


And more annoying if things get rearranged when new FAQs are added and I have to go back to replace that style for the non-spaced one, etc. I'll poke around on the OO forums to see if there's a work around. I doubt it though. This might be something that you'll have to ignore if you use this thing.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:28 pm 
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Dave wrote:
And more annoying if things get rearranged when new FAQs are added and I have to go back to replace that style for the non-spaced one, etc. I'll poke around on the OO forums to see if there's a work around. I doubt it though. This might be something that you'll have to ignore if you use this thing.

Or just have two h3 styles, one with space for general use, one without for use at the top of a column.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:01 pm 
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That's what I was getting at. If things get rearrange I have to go hunting and replacing for them.

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 Post subject: Re: NetEA Tournament Pack 2012 - 2012/05/31
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:25 pm 
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Dave wrote:
Apocolocyntosis wrote:
That's just how that version of garmond is. If you look at Adobe's garamond pro version instead, compared to the garamond used in this file you'll find the italic figures are more 'serify' – eg the 4 and the 1 have a foot, the 3 keeps a swell.


I've got Adobe 9 on the machine I grabbed all the fonts from. It's Garamond 2.4.


It makes absolutely no difference for anything, but i'm procrastinating, so here is a comparison between the garmond in the pdf and adobe garmond pro:
Image

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