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NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6

 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 13:18 )

My guess is... there's about to be launched an Epic V within a year. And GW thus don't want us to have to much influence and "power".

Maybe some army releases, but no new edition.

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 13:17 )

But there's no rules to committee... Jervis was quite clear on that.

Erik M are you intentionally trying to be belligerently sarcastic, or what is the point of you making comments like this?  Do you actually understand the situational difficulties when dealing with another company's intellectual property?

Of course rules can be changed, and point values, and anything else.  Jervis said that the "official GW website" documents would only be updated with errata and that GW would not be reviewing the rules anymore.  There's no ban on other people making changes for themselves at all.

The NetERC *does* review the rules, and, for the most part, the rules haven't been "found wanting"; many suggestions for changes/additions have been proposed, discussed, and, for the most part, rejected, by large portions of the whole Epic community.  The main complaint people have had is that there aren't enough "finish armies", so why wouldn't we make that the priority focus?

The core rules of the game stand pretty well on their own, so there's little need to "review" them at the moment.

I Say - Vive La France!

Again, you really seem to miss the point.  That "French document" you're referring to is a compilation, other than the Squat list, of all the NetERC recommendations and army lists, it's practically a de facto NetERC rulebook... exactly what you're looking for.  It's just that it's been put together both in French and English since Hojyn is French and, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, prefers the direction the NetERC is taking things over the F-ERC.

The F-ERC (French Epic Rules Committee) has a completely different set of rules and army lists with Marine tanks getting reinforced armour, Ork-style Tyranids, and all kinds of other differences.  This recent Compendium doesn't include any of that stuff.




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jun. 2009, 15:10 )

I'm fine with them keeping the ERC name.

I think it was a joke :smile: Cephal = head in Latin.


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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:49 pm 
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As always I want ONE rule set. And the only viable one is THE ONE (that's GW's), all other are individual groups various home brewn rules.
And I'm QUITE aware that the French compendium includes nothing new. But it's compiled into ONE document. And on top of that with errata and FAQ incorporated.

What we can do here is discuss rules and perhaps make standardized rules query to Jervis (or to someone he appoints an official status) and we can make new army lists.

It's futile and disruptive to talk about rules and about changing them thou. That happens only behind GW doors.
Every rule change discussion make it more clear that there's a need for ONE rule set. At least if we want new people in. 'Cause they inevitably end in that each (more or less big) group decide for themselves.
Segregation at it's finest.

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 13:49 )

What we can do here is discuss rules and perhaps make standardized rules query to Jervis (or to someone he appoints an official status) and we can make new army lists.

We already have that person , in an as official-as-possible-unofficial-volunteer position: Neal Hunt, head of the NetERC and original member of the GW EPIC RULES COMMITTEE.

There will be no other "official appointments" or further updates from GW/Jervis for the foreseeable future.  *EVERYTHING* that follows will be fan-made/fan-based.




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:13 pm 
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*EVERYTHING* that follows will be fan-made/fan-based.


Maybe.  :;):

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:13 pm 
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And that is Compendium 2 by Hojyn. Right?
So why not use that straight of?
Why make another identical copy, only layout'd differently?

And then why add to the confusion? Why change rules and make another separatista version of EA? Ie the netERC approved version, differing from the official (in some way).
It seem as if I wasn't as far off the mark when I went into here as many with me hasn't been. In here we discuss the Epic:netERC version of the Epic:Armageddon rules. Then we have the Epic:UK rules and the Epic:France rules. I guess there's also Epic:German? And we know there's Epic:Handbook2008 rules too.
Only the netEpic rules, the Epic:5 rules, are truly their own.

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:16 pm 
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The Handbook 2008 needs to be removed from the web, it's served its purpose and now only causes confusion.


The NetERC has made no real changes to the core rules, and in my opinion shouldn't.

Its priority task at this point should be to take over the Compendium/Handbook project and release an 'Epic Army Book 2009 Edition' as soon as possible, containing all of the army lists that the ERC sponsors, with each being accompanied with a rating (Either Official, ERC Official, or Experimental).


The ERC has spent a year reviewing all the army lists under its domain, I now want to see it take a leadership position and move forward on an 'Armies Book'.

It is emminently possible that such a publication could then be printed in a softback book.




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:20 pm 
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Erik: As far as I'm aware none of the Epic rules groups have changed the core rules at all since the offical Errata. The ERC suggestions for changes (which is what the handbook 2008 is based on) were filtered and selected by Jervis to make the official Errata, which is now the core Epic rules, followed by just about everyone. A few people still use the handbook 2008 for convenience, but the newer handbook and compendium are just using the offical rules + errata.

Most people see no real need to work on the core rules, certainly for the foreseeable future, with army lists being much more of a priority. All the netERC, EpicUK, F-ERC etc are doing is focusing on the army list development.

I really don't know what you're complaining about; you want fixed rules and that's what we have.

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:23 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:13 )

And then why add to the confusion? Why change rules and make another separatista version of EA? Ie the netERC approved version, differing from the official (in some way).

Yes, it's different, because the NetERC changed stats and point values from the "Official Update" that were deemed too controversial by Jervis to include in the official changes... since he wanted no point changes in the official rules as not to alienate anyone who wasn't aware changes had been made.

Hojyn's "Compendium 2.0" includes most, if not all, the the NetERC changes, but some errors have creeped in.  We're looking at working with Hojyn to correct that and see what else we can do.  The main reason for all the confusion is that we didn't know Hojyn was doing this until he actually posted it!

We'd been trying just to get the errata-ed rules up on the GW site so that people would have a "common base" to start from.

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:25 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:16 )

The ERC has spent a year reviewing all the army lists under its domain, I now want to see it take a leadership position and move forward on an 'Armies Book'.

Yeah, we have reviewed them, and there's a lot of "Needs more work" for many of them that prevents an "NetERC Army Book" from being produced in the short term.

Rushing out armies that haven't been sufficiently vetted is far worse than delaying for testing; a "bad" army being made "official" tarnishes all other work around it.

Example: The Mossinians.  I think the delays are going to vastly improve that army; publishing it earlier would've been a sad mistake.




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:28 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:25 )

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:16 )

The ERC has spent a year reviewing all the army lists under its domain, I now want to see it take a leadership position and move forward on an 'Armies Book'.

Yeah, we have reviewed them, and there's a lot of "Needs more work" for many of them that prevents an "NetERC Army Book" from being produced in the short term.

That's why you label the army lists according to two bands:

- NetERC Offical
- NetERC Experimental


Which gives the same situation as now, except everything is in one place for convinence... we've seen how successful the Handbook was, and that was in a much worse state as regards balance than the lists as they are now.

The NetERC should move forwards on an 'Armies Book', sooner rather than later.

Example: The Mossinians.  I think the delays are going to vastly improve that army; publishing it earlier would've been a sad mistake.


Unlike the Mossinians, most of the NetERC army lists have been in development for years.

Most are ready for compilation in a NetERC Armybook now, either tagged as Official or Experimental.


The ERC suggestions for changes (which is what the handbook 2008 is based on) were filtered and selected by Jervis to make the official Errata

Actually he took the NetERC's changelist, the old ERC had been disbanded by that point.




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:28 )

Actually he took the NetERC's changelist, the old ERC had been disbanded by that point.

And that's about as "official" an endorsement as we're gonna get... *sigh*

Oh, and I just realized that people are reading the acronym "NetERC" with the wrong emphasis.

It's "Net "Epic RULES!" Committee".   :laugh:

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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:33 pm 
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Yes, I meant the netERC, sorry.

But yes, the netERC really needs to collate a single armies document, kept updated with the current army lists. Obviously not for printing until it's ready, but the document should be made and released online on a dedicated website explaining what the netERC is, just for consistency's sake.

It wouldn't even be that much work; the Compendium is almost exactly what I'm talking about, just split off just the armies section, label the lists as E&C says and stick it on a website.

I'd imagine CS would offer hosting space for such a project?




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 Post subject: NetERC rulebook sections 5 and 6
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:36 pm 
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Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ 02 Jun. 2009, 14:28 )

Unlike the Mossinians, most of the NetERC army lists have been in development for years.

Yes, but a lot of that is due to the reduction of Specialist Games, army champions disappearing without notice, no one being in charge, etc...

Now that the NetERC has *finally* gotten the updated rules for GW, and Army Champions for each major race (and many minor ones) we can actually get stuff rolling.

We've got volunteers all over the world, who are doing this for the love of the game... but it's still like herding cats... very opinionated cats...  :p

But I love it.   :agree:

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