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Crazy Idea
Markconz
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:41 pm 
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(Hena @ Jul. 23 2007,12:34)
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I wouldn't lower the cost of Destructors any more than that 275.

Really?  :O  Do you actually like these - why? I fail to see the attraction  ???  :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:46 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 23 2007,12:36)
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This has been raised before (perhaps by you E&C?)


I've supported a 'free' upgrade for Tornados before.

Today, I'm looking at the other Land Speeders:

- Multi-Melta Speeders - Too cheap (And a crutch?) or just right?

- Typhoons - Too expensive?

Oh so you are...

IMO - no, MM speeders are 'just right'.

Tornadoes - yeah make em free upgrade.

Typhoons - no +25 is reasonable considering what you can do with them.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:00 pm 
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In the Scions list


Unless you're going to propose that some elements of the Scions of Iron list be adopted into the core list, discussing how the price of units is balanced in the Scions list is not useful.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:10 pm 
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No but it does make the point about cost / power.


No, it really isn't useful.

A Predator Destructor may well be costed correctly at 75pts when used as an upgrade... but it obviously isn't worth that when used independently in a squadron of four.

You're comparing apples with oranges.


And I don't think that the main list should have overly cheap things in it.

Neither do I?  ???




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Markconz
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:23 pm 
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(Hena @ Jul. 23 2007,13:05)
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I don't think that the main list should have overly cheap things in it.

But that is the whole point - and tell me how 250 is too cheap? I mean lets face it, they really are not an attractive unit right now. Even you admitted that you don't like them.  

Interestingly the 40k points ratio would have them at about 200-225 points if the annihilators were 275.  Means nothing in Epic of course, but I do think that in Epic Destructors are less attractive than Annihilators.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:53 pm 
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I'm with Markconz on this one, Destructors should be cheaper, in the core list.

Fix formations at 3 set types*, if we have to.


(4 Destructors, 4 Annihilators, or 2 of each, with different costs for each formation type)




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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:44 pm 
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I said it the last time we talked about this: The Tornados should be a free upgrade for the basic Land Speeder.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:43 pm 
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I like the fact that a couple years ago I was hammering the point on the boards that Speeders were a darn good choice and a perfectly valid source of MW attacks in the SM list because many people thought they were weak, but now E&C raises the idea that maybe they are too good...

I could also agree to a 0-point change for Tornadoes.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:53 pm 
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I've no idea how they could be seen as a weak choice! :D

I never leave the fortress monastry without at least one squadron!

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:35 pm 
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Land Speeders are superb. My regular opponent always fields at least 2 formations of them. I really hate it when he moves 6cm close to my formations, unloads his Multi-meltas and in my next activation forces me to move or engange.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Crazy Idea
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:59 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 23 2007,18:53)
QUOTE
I've no idea how they could be seen as a weak choice! :D

I never leave the fortress monastry without at least one squadron!

I agree completely, yet I was at pains to convince anyone.

IIRC, this was at the confluence of the "LVs suck!  Mixed formations suck!  Taking them is virtual suicide!" movement and the "Marines can't beat WEs!  They must have MW/TK attacks!" movement.  You'd think that would cancel out for the Speeders, but the LV voices were undoubtedly louder and more insistent.

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