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WPS EPIC ruleset changes
Braveheart
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:02 pm 
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Hello,

As most of you UK tournament players will know the WPS host tournaments all over the UK. They produce there own rulesets and I'm the one in charge of updating the EPIC one.

I've just updated the rule set. The new ruleset can be found here (when it's been uploaded). http://www.players-society.com/

To summaries the changes made:

1) Army selection

"...You may not use any army list that hasn't been that has not been printed in either the EPIC Armageddon rulebook, Swordwind Supplement or White Dwarf magazine or the fanatic magazine. This means vault lists are not allowed..."

To be changed to...

"... You may only use army lists published in either the EPIC Armageddon rulebook, Swordwind supplement, White Dwarf magazine, the Fanatic magazine or the EPIC rulebook section of the specialist games website. No lists or rules from the experimental part of the EPIC specialist games website will be allowed..."

2) General Restrictions

"... The tournament will be played using all the relevant rules and supplements that are available to the general public as of the date of the tournament. This includes all clarifications and amendments officially published on the EPIC website..."

To be changed to...

"... The tournament will be played using all the relevant rules in the EPIC Armageddon rulebook, Swordwind supplement, White Dwarf magazine, the Fanatic magazine or the EPIC rulebook section of the specialist games website as of the date of the tournament. No rules from the experimental part of the EPIC specialist games website will be allowed..."

3) Pre-measuring

"...This should be discussed between players, if you cannot agree you must roll a D6 for it. The ruling in the rulebook is not used..."

To be change to...

"... Pre-measuring MUST be used. Only when BOTH opponents agree, pre-measuring will not be used..."

4) They shall not pass

"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that a single unit is all that's required - not a whole formation..."

To be change to...

"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that at least half of the remaining units in the formation, contesting this objective, MUST be in the opponents half of the table..."

5) Scenarios

"... Missions to be played will be detailed in the tournament specific rulepack..."

To be change to...

"...We will be using the tournament scenario detailed in section 6.1 of the EPIC Armageddon rulebook and all rule for that scenario will apply..."



Please let me know what you think of the changes.

Also I wanted to bring up the points system. Now I've made no changes to this as I think it's the best points system on the tournament circuit. It's NOT complicated at all! However some people have mentioned the points given for each type of win needs a little tweeking.

Please have a look and let me know what you think

Any problems please let me know

Cheers

Matt

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:11 pm 
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"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that at least half of the remaining units in the formation, contesting this objective, MUST be in the opponents half of the table..."


This strikes me as an entirely arbitrary and unnessary change.

The RULE is 'unit'. Not 'formation'. So you're changing the rules of the game with this change.



Also I wanted to bring up the points system. Now I've made no changes to this as I think it's the best points system on the tournament circuit. It's NOT complicated at all! However some people have mentioned the points given for each type of win needs a little tweeking.

What is the WPS points system?





Overall I expect Eldar & Siegemasters will whip every other army coming, because they're quite overpowered, and you won't be using the updated versions of these armylists that tone down their overpowering strengths.

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Steve54
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:06 pm 
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I don't think Eldar or Siegemasters have won a UK tournament in at least the last 2 years. Admittedly Siegemasters are hardly ever represented.
With Eldar maybe its the lack of cover at most UK tournaments or perhaps due to their basic strength as a list people haven't put quite as much effort into maximising them.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:39 pm 
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Beardy pulsar will be taking his Eldar. :D

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:04 pm 
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Yes its to the eldars credit that no one as yet (well maybe one exception) has fielded a 'maximised' army. Instead going for some personal style or varied force.

Siegemasters wise :) Mine are down for repainting but I could repair the old paint job. However unless I become meaner and field the suggested list in the thread announcing the tourny its quite beatable and I'm happy to advertise its composition for a fair bit before.

It does have a problem that it takes an age to deploy however.

Otherwise Micheal has a siege army, but that is for his entertainment and isn't a min maxed one.

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yme-loc
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:35 pm 
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(Steve54 @ Apr. 10 2007,16:06)
QUOTE
I don't think Eldar or Siegemasters have won a UK tournament in at least the last 2 years. Admittedly Siegemasters are hardly ever represented.
With Eldar maybe its the lack of cover at most UK tournaments or perhaps due to their basic strength as a list people haven't put quite as much effort into maximising them.

Its an odd one but the less cover I have had the better my eldar army does.

Probably the main reason the eldar havnt won tournaments though is that they arn't as over powered as most people think - O and Tim and Dave very rarely play them.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 5:41 pm 
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And few wish to play the ranged MW army of doom that sits on the back line :)

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yme-loc
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:05 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Apr. 10 2007,17:41)
QUOTE
And few wish to play the ranged MW army of doom that sits on the back line :)

Interestingly its not that effective in tourni play because your opponent takes one look at it and goes right I am going nowhere near that digs his entire army into cover and doesnt advance until the last turns to dispute objectives - so you just end up with 3-5 draws.

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Braveheart
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:53 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Apr. 10 2007,14:11)
QUOTE
"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that at least half of the remaining units in the formation, contesting this objective, MUST be in the opponents half of the table..."


This strikes me as an entirely arbitrary and unnessary change.

The RULE is 'unit'. Not 'formation'. So you're changing the rules of the game with this change.



Also I wanted to bring up the points system. Now I've made no changes to this as I think it's the best points system on the tournament circuit. It's NOT complicated at all! However some people have mentioned the points given for each type of win needs a little tweeking.


What is the WPS points system?





Overall I expect Eldar & Siegemasters will whip every other army coming, because they're quite overpowered, and you won't be using the updated versions of these armylists that tone down their overpowering strengths.
This strikes me as an entirely arbitrary and unnessary change.

The RULE is 'unit'. Not 'formation'. So you're changing the rules of the game with this change.

It's to stop 5 men 5mm high, of a unit 200 strong claiming 6"x2" worth of land ... not really what I GW had in mind

Overall I expect Eldar & Siegemasters will whip every other army coming, because they're quite overpowered, and you won't be using the updated versions of these armylists that tone down their overpowering strengths.

This is all I hear about the Eldar. I have been to every EPIC tournament within the last two years in the UK (I think?) and an Eldar army hasn't won a tournament ... therefore they are not overpowered in a tournament enviroment and no changes are needed.

Seige masters on the other hand, haven't seen enough of them to make a statement. They are hard however they may only get a 2-0, 2-1 win and struggle for the 4 or more objectives; ummm not sure!

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:58 am 
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Oh thats a challenge!

Incidentally the claiming change originates from a CC a while back. The concensus after Matt made the ruling for that game (or the players sorted it out) was that the token stand was too easy/looked bad/favoured certain armies. I think its a popular change.

Though since we are changing rules Matt why not include stuff thats experimental/army champ suggestions/stuf you like that differentiates from other sources etc. Everyone after all is expected to read this pack.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:58 am 
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It did indeed, however I think that it was also the last ime that we got a ruling from JJ where he stated that this should be a hard Goal to achieve and that one unit did count against it.

My opinion has changed several time over this topic and I now feel that it should be hard and that one unit should be allowed to stop a person getting this goal. Might reduce the chance of 5-0 game results.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:42 pm 
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The idea is for as wide as possible disseminatgion of rules, not nessecerily balance. Idea being everyone having the same baseline is better than some people knowing and playing with rules that others are unaware of.

Of course Epics extended rules review has made this a bit tricky. Some people have only played the experimental rules, or haven't played the base ones for a while. And so on.

I guess if it continues either Matt does a mini WPS rules review and it diverges from epic, or we folow tac-coms proposed review or something else.

In the mean time don't feel you have to abuse the army lists that have imbalances :)

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dptdexys
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:17 pm 
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4) They shall not pass

"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that a single unit is all that's required - not a whole formation..."

To be change to...

"...To achieve this goal there must be no unbroken enemy units in your half of the table. Note that at least half of the remaining units in the formation, contesting this objective, MUST be in the opponents half of the table..."


This could cause problems itself Matt.
as an example:-
Player A ends up with 9 units out of 20 from a IG mechanised co. in player B's half but cannot stop TSNP being claimed, but player B has a single deathstrike carrier out of 2 units from the battery in player A's half and can stop TSNP being claimed.This doesn't seem fair to player A who has more units in their opponents table half.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: WPS EPIC ruleset changes
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Can't say I've ever noticed this change before!

My 2 cents say its either book rules or it isn't.
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