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ragnarok

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:12 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

Over the past couple of weeks I have slowly converted the school gaming group I run to epic.

Theentire group has shown great interest in it (always the way they show interest but getting them to buy stuff is the hard part :laugh:

) The combination of massed infantry and large war machines appeals to them. I even have a new member of the group... a girl

So far I have been teaching them a simplified version of the rules. No objectives and no garissoning (naturally) and only one goal, BTS.

To begin with I kept the games perfectly balance with mirroed armies on either side (2 IG infantry formations a sentinel formation, a tactcal formation with two razorbacks and a warhound each). Though recently I have started using pure armies of IG ves marines. (Though at one point I did have a 2800pt IG/marine army Vs 2500pts of AMTL, that was a mess). The first was a disaster with the marines getting creamed by a pair of warhounds.

The most recent was a bit better with the marines trying a daring assault on the IGs BTS with their own one (termies) with a tactical formation in support. The termies died, taking 8 IG stands with them and almost breaking them

My problem seems to be balancing the two armies so that they work. I'm finding that the marines are dealing well with their BM managment and not taking many casulaties on the way in, but the shear number of IG are swamping them.

I'm planning on blancing this out by adding in two new objectives, They shall not pass and blitzkrieg. This should hopeflly get the guard moving

However I'm still stuck on armylist composition I am a nid player (and recently an AMTL p[layer, which still doesn't help), as a result I believe in strength in number.

So, I need help for armylists.

I'm planning on 2K games and have (roughly) the following forces

IG
3 Baneblades
12 executioners (leman russ proxies)
3 hydras
4 infantry companies
1 fire support platoon
12 sands of ogryns
2 sentinel formations

Marines
4 tactical formations
1 assault formation
1 devastation formation
1 termie formation
2 dreads
7 rhinos
4 razorbacks (2 of each)
2 landraiders
1 thunderhawk
1 landing craft
1 land speeder formation

So I was wondering what you lot thought were balanced army lists (at 2000pts) with this allocation of troops (each side may also have a warhoud titan, but if one does so does the other) and the objectives

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Dwarf Supreme

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:46 pm

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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11149
Location: Canton, CT, USA

Congrats on the new recruits! I would steer clear of Titans, maybe even WEs and aircraft, until the players are more comfortable with the basic game mechanics. You might be able to play with all of the objectives. 2000 should be enough points for a fairly well balanced game (and not too many). Perhaps limiting the number of IG activations would help newbie SM players.

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Lord Inquisitor

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:50 pm

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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA

I think WEs and Titans are okay, but I'd leave Aircraft out of it to start. WEs follow the basic rules, and dammit, they're so cool people are going to want to use them. Nothing like a Warlord to draw people to the game.

I've not got time to work you out a list right now, but I would stay clear of upgrades as much as possible.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:57 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

For my intro games I have a set scenario:

- Three objective markers, one placed in the centre, one placed by each player.
- To win, you have to claim best of three.

After a couple of games I introduce BTS... having it from the start is pretty open to unbalanced situations.

WE's are in it from the start, since they're both cool and pretty easy to use, while aircraft are not.

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iblisdrax

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:59 pm

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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm
Posts: 3381
Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.

Marines, of all the armies, I have found to be unbalanced if not playing with all the objectives. In our first few games, also played without objectives, the marines lost badly...they simply couldnt stand toe to toe with IG or Chaos. But when the objectives where added in, the whole game changed. Now the marines can use their speed and toughness to their fullest, and won the last game against Chaos 3-0. I would never run a game now without objectives or some sort of scenario, unless playing against a totally new player.

ib

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Vermis

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:24 am

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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm
Posts: 941

(ragnarok @ Oct. 18 2006,21:12)

QUOTE

I even have a new member of the group... a girl ?

What? Is that legal?

Can't offer anything in the way of advice, so I'll just offer my compliments. Nice work!

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Suvarov454

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:52 am

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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:24 am
Posts: 233
Location: Albany, NY

I don't know how realistic this suggestion is for you, but have you tried Orks vs IG? ?Foot warbands vs IG Infantry companies are fairly well matched. ?The IG are better at long range shooting, the Orks at CC and FF depends on whether the Ork player has preserved the Grots or not. ?I'd think it'd be a great way of showing new players how different playing styles can still be balanced.

Plus, it's fun to shout, "WAAAGGGHHH!" when your boyz get stuck in! ? :laugh:

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:07 am

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

I find Orks are a little overwhelming for newbies.

Generally I just start them off with a demo game of two Marine forces.

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firestorm40k

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:55 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:00 pm
Posts: 2277
Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom

Echoing Suvarov & E&C, I'd either do Marines v Marines, gradually adding WE & Aircraft; or once they're used to IG try pitting them against some foot-slogging Orks.

Has anyone ever tried intro games for E:A where they have 'split' formations to reflect what normal 40k armies look like; e.g. a Guard Infantry Company w/Ogryn, Demolishers & Heavy Weapons Squads split in to three 'platoon' formations? ?I've considered this idea, as it doesn't effect the points cost that much, and allows you to get more formations out of a smaller points worth of army. ?If that makes sense!

P.S. It doesn't surprise me that girls are wanting to join... my fiancee's daughter joined in a 40k game I was playing against her younger brother, she quickly got in to it, and is now painting her first army - Sisters of Battle, natch! :;):

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netepic

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:34 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England

(Vermis @ Oct. 19 2006,00:24)

QUOTE

(ragnarok @ Oct. 18 2006,21:12)

QUOTE

I even have a new member of the group... a girl ?

What? ?Is that legal?

Can't offer anything in the way of advice, so I'll just offer my compliments. ?Nice work!

Really? Awesome... I need to find a gaming girl, I tend to find that the only gaming girls in our area are my GF's when they want to check up on me

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Suvarov454

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:14 pm

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Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:24 am
Posts: 233
Location: Albany, NY

Here in the US, there's an effort underway to ?encourage girls to take up Math and Science. ?I feel that Science Fiction and Military games to be in the same "geek area". ?Calculating the average DRM to the assault resolution roll of an Ork Warband in FF with an IG Infantry Company in the open is "maths intensive" (darn those fractions!). ?

Also, there's a growing realization that the "gamer boy" is an incorrect stereotype (at least 30% of videogamers are female). ?I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that all these demographic trends are combining with the inherently artistic nature of the game to produce more female miniatures wargamers.

P.S. the average DRM in the above example should be approximately +1 IG: 2 dead IG Infantry stands against 2 dead Grot stands and 2.333 hits on Boyz, which would give the IG "Outnumber". ?If the Nobz are in front of the Boyz, the DRM shifts in the Orks favor, as the chances that at least one of their hits will be saved are fairly high. ?Commisars, Cover Saves, and Blast Markers can all shift the DRM substantially.

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Enderel

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:08 pm

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Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:54 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Southampton - UK

(Suvarov454 @ Oct. 19 2006,13:14)

QUOTE

P.S. the average DRM in the above example should be approximately +1 IG: 2 dead IG Infantry stands against 2 dead Grot stands and 2.333 hits on Boyz, which would give the IG "Outnumber". ?If the Nobz are in front of the Boyz, the DRM shifts in the Orks favor, as the chances that at least one of their hits will be saved are fairly high. ?Commisars, Cover Saves, and Blast Markers can all shift the DRM substantially.

ROFL

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Morg

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:28 pm

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Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:33 pm
Posts: 193
Location: Ireland

(ragnarok @ Oct. 18 2006,22:12)

QUOTE

So I was wondering what you lot thought were balanced army lists (at 2000pts) with this allocation of troops (each side may also have a warhoud titan, but if one does so does the other) and the objectives

I would pitch these two forces against each other:

IG:
1x Regimental HQ
1x Infantry Company
1x Fire Support (either for HQ or Regimental)
1x Super Heavy Tank Company
1x Tank Company

Marines:
1x Terminator
1x Assaults
1x Devastators
with 2x Land Raiders
1x Landspeeder
1x Tactical (for garrisons)
with 2x Dreadnoughts
1x Tactical
with 4x Razorbacks

Further character for 50 points - I usually take chaplains.

This has a nice mix of all ground-based toys in it and leaves the flying beasts out.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:12 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

(netepic @ Oct. 19 2006,08:34)

QUOTE

Really? Awesome... I need to find a gaming girl, I tend to find that the only gaming girls in our area are my GF's when they want to check up on me

My GF doesn't get the appeal in wargaming at all... if I ask her if she wants to try a game she just laughs.

She's interested in the painting however so maybe I can at least get an army or two painted double-time.

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ragnarok

Post subject: More converts

Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:05 pm

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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

(Morg @ Oct. 19 2006,14:28)

QUOTE

(ragnarok @ Oct. 18 2006,22:12)

QUOTE

I like those forces. However I don't own any chimeras

. Though I could proxy them with spare rhinos.

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