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Vermis · **Joined:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm **Posts:** 941

This is why I asked about prefered scales. Thanks to my mental block with powered armour, and being reacquainted with my disappointment in most dinosaur mini ranges, I've decided to pull my finger out and actually try sculpting some dinosaurs.

I've decided to try two ranges: one in 30mm (to give them a leg-up beside 'heroic' 28mm minis), and one in a smaller scale. Either 10mm or 15mm - for a few reasons I think 15mm might be best. But I've already started my practise sculpt: a 10mm Ceratosaurus.

37.3mm from snout to tail, though the curvature of the spine makes it a tad shorter. For reference, the plastic base is 15mm long.

I'm trying out the method of masters like Kev White and Ebob - sculpting rough musculature over a rough skeleton. But you might be able to tell I haven't finished the skeleton.

I've only started the skull, in particular (which doesn't have much in the way of muscles, so I have to pay closer attention to that), and it needs tidied up with a little dry-sculpting before I add more details to it. But that's it for tonight (and possibly for a few days), which is why I uploaded a pic of it at this stage. :;):

Dwarf Supreme · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:41 pm

Nice job so far, Vemis.

Cuban Commissar · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:59 pm

It's an impressive scuplt already.

Markconz · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:01 am

Impressive. Something I couldn't do.

Legion 4 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 4:44 am

Wow !!! Neat !!! A Megasaurus !

vanvlak · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:13 am

Good grief, that IS good! :cool:

firestorm40k · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:50 am

Aww, that's looking grand Vermis, just grand!

Can't wait to see the finished product! :cool:

iblisdrax · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:36 am

Can't wait to see the finished product, so far looks great

ib

Reaver · **Posted:** Sat Sep 23, 2006 3:39 pm

I like it , and think you are doing great so far. Just a note of caution, some of it is inaccurate. This isn't a problem if it's just for you, but if you were thinking of having it cast and selling it it would be worth taking time to get it right scientifically. The model dinosaur crowd are notoriously hardd to please!

I'll butt out now, as I don't want to cause offence. But if you want some info on the bits that need changing, I'll happily post a detailed critique for you - I used to sculpt dinos for a living.
Regards,
Reaver

Vermis · **Joined:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm **Posts:** 941

Ouch. After all the references I used too. But keep in mind it's pretty rough and needs a lot of shaving down and touch-ups. :;):

But, yes: I think your critique would be invaluable and appreciated - after I take a minute. :laugh:

Don't go easy on me!

Reaver · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Okay, first things first - if you don't already have them, try and get hold of Predatory Dinosaurs of the World (PDW) by Greg Paul and The Scientific American book of Dinosaurs. Chapter 4 in PDW, The nuts and bolts of predatory dinosaur anatomy and action, is invaluable, as is Restoring the life appearances of dinosaurs in the Sci Am book.

As to your sculpt, it looks good so far. The issues I see are the lower leg sections look too long, and the forelimb is definitely too long. ?There's a bit of an issue with the back as well. Ceratosaurus had elongated vertebral spines, which formed a bit of a fin along the back. I can see a bit of that on the trunk of your model but they need to heighten the hips and the tail, especially at the base. The head appears a bit long, particularly behind the orbit. Ceratosaurus also had a pair of horns in front of and above the eyes. I guess you know that and just haven't got round to it yet! The nasal horn is too big, but again, I guess you just haven't got round to trimming it yet. That said, trim it from the back, as it is too central on the head at the moment. The snout looks to be at touch elongated too. The lower jaw needs to be deeper towards the back, as the posterior pterygoideus muscle wraps around there.
All of this may be too much to worry about at the scale you are working at though, so I wouldn't panic overmuch.
One thing worth mentioning is that when you do the skin, don't bother with scales. At 2.5 to 5mm across lifesize, dino scales wouldn't be visible in miniature. The exception is is row of bony scutes which Ceratosaurus had atop each vertebral spine. Also when you get to the forelimbs, remember Ceratosaurus was a very primitive theropod and had four fingers.

I'm not sure what kind of reference material you have, but the best bet is to start which a good skeletal drawing. I've attached one with this post - it shows the proportions much better than I can explain them! I like to print these off at the right size, and then check the sculpt against it as I go.

Anyway, if I think of anything else, I'll let you know!

Regards,
Reaver

vanvlak · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:00 pm

Good grief, it always amazes me what a varied array of expertise meets at Tacwags! :cool:

Vermis · **Joined:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm **Posts:** 941

Okay, first things first - if you don't already have them, try and get hold of Predatory Dinosaurs of the World (PDW) by Greg Paul and The Scientific American book of Dinosaurs.

Reaver · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:13 pm

On the legs, I think the femur looks about right, but the tibia / fibia is a touch long and the foot / toes section is definitely too long, even just looking at the putty bit.

Quick point on the skeletal pic I posted; the hands are out of date. They show the palms facing backwards, but in reality they face inwards ( think clapping your hands).

Glad to see you found Scott Hartmann's website - he is very good with skeletal restorations, and has a decent amount of paleo training to back it up.

As for John Sibbick, he's a fantastic artist, and a really helpful bloke, but most of his dino pics are old now, and the accuracy of them is sadly lacking. He did paint the 40K:Rogue Trader cover though, so there's a wargames connection!

For Chasmosaurus, I've posted Greg Paul's muscle study here:
http://tinyurl.co.uk/z2xj

and a multiview skeletal resto of Triceratops, including trackway, which shows the correct limb posture here:
http://tinyurl.co.uk/m8mz

Hope this helps!
Reaver

Vermis · **Joined:** Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:36 pm **Posts:** 941

Wow! Thanks again - that's also incredibly useful. I'm very much obliged.

Stunning horses too, and those dinosaurs look very familiar. Have we run into eachother on the Forum of Doom?

Dinosaur!

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