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How is camo painted in real life?
Chroma
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:19 am 
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Was just working on some EPIC Imperial Guard when the thought occured to me that I didn't know how militaries actually go about painting camouflage patterns on armoured vehicles.  Are their templates, rough guides, just random mixes of specific colours?  I'm quite curious and I'm sure someone here on the boards must know!

Thanks for your time!

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primarch
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:00 am 
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Hi!

Thats an interesting question, for the death of me I dont know the answer and am also curious.

One of the military members might know.

Primarch

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:56 am 
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Check out the GHQ site? They normally have some info about camo.

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:37 am 
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Quote (Chroma @ 19 Jan. 2006 (16:19))
Are their templates, rough guides, just random mixes of specific colours?

There are indeed templates for doing it.

How it's applied though really does depend on the size and the shape of the vehicle though.

What it's supposed to do is more or less:

a) reverse the perceived shading of the object by making an area that would normally be darker or in shade seem lighter and vice versa, and;

b) break up the outline of the vehicle by drwaing the eye away from it's invariably straight lines and corners which just don't exist in nature.

The second one can actually be hard to do with field improvised camoflage. Done incorrectly it actually draws the human eye to the artificial straight edges on vehicles or equipment by kind of providing a line for the eye to follow.

And for personnel, breaking up the outline of troops is actually why the Israelis and Russians both issue baggy hats and smocks rather than the "tailored" types most NATO countries wear.

Cmoflaged or not a human shape is still a human shape when it's close enough. When it's cunningly disguised as a "camoflaged pear" though the identification range is much closer than it would be with normal camo.

Same thing applies for vehicles as well just on a larger scale.

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tchristney
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:17 am 
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At one time it was random, but modern militaries are much more methodical. The problem with the random approach is that most people do a poor job of free hand camo painting. The problem with the template approach is that vehicles of the same type have the same paint job. IMO, most militaries will eventually combine the two approaches and provide software that can provide a unique template for any vehicle in their arsenal.

Having said all that, the most effective camo in the field is usually just bush and other local vegetation stuck onto the vehicle.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:29 am 
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You are correct "H" !  However almost all Grunts I know (Including me !) didn't tailor our baggy field uniforms !  We know all about Camo, Cover and Concealment .. we had classes on it !                             ?To camo a military vehicle (and we repainted vehicles in the Mech Infantry often)... ?Go to the manual ... there is a drawing/schematic of the Vehicle from all aspects. ?The camo scheme is drawn on with chalk. ?Then like "paint by numbers", the appropriate color is sprayed or brushed on, in the appropriate places. ?The colors are specified and available in the supply system. ?As you can see most US/NATO AFVs in the desert are a uniform "desert tan or sand". ?Most vehicles in temperate climates are green, brown and black. ?In the winter, in the ROK, we just mixed up "white wash" with lime & water, and spread it on with mops ! ?That's just how it's done for real ... been there ... done that (well actually my troops/crews did it, I just left it up to my NCO's to "make it happen" !) ? :laugh: :;): ?And yes, local flora and fauna are also used on occasions, but must be changed regularly, as dead vegetation is a "dead give away" ?:laugh: ?Most armies used camo nets ... easy, quick and effective. ?All vehicles have them rolled up and strapped on some where on the hull, hood, etc. ?We'd practice doing it ... the faster ... the better. ?And it does not have to be changed out like real foliage because it does not die ... ? :8):




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vanvlak
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:40 am 
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And in case of snow, whitewash all over!
And don't forget the later German WWII schemes -some or al tanks were delivered in sand yellow colour, with olive green and a brickish sort of red being singly or both applied by whatever came to hand - spray guns, rollers, brushes, or (if true) opening cans of paint and thowing the contents at the tank in times of haste. I wonder if this is apocryphal...???

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minitj
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:32 am 
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and lest we forget the pink panthers of north africa fame

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Chroma
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:48 pm 
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Thanks for the replies folks!  I've learned!

So, it's not "bad" that all my tanks have camo variations on the same "theme" instead of all looking the same?

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minitj
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:48 pm 
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not at all!

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:02 pm 
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It's quite normal, actually. If you look at pics of vehicles with camo, from WWII to today, you'll notice that a group of vehicles will have the same camo pattern, but usually aren't painted excatly the same.

I know that the the camo pattern for unis for the US army and USMC are, in fact, computer generated to ensure that the pattern is sufficiently "random."

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:10 pm 
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Hehe...sorry for the confusion L4. My bad... What I meant when I said "tailored" for personal uniforms was more that Western uniforms... UK, US, Canada, etc... all have a traditional cut to them. Straight pant legs, straight arms straight hems etc...

You get into some of the Russkie stuff from the last decade and a half when they really started getting into camo and a lot of it... in particular the Spec Ops stuff... looks like they've slapped camo on badly sewn potato sacks.

I've seen some of it in person out in "the wild" and it *really* breaks up the outline a lot more than standard camo uniforms do.

A great reference for personal camo is:

http://www.kamouflage.net/camouflage/en_00001.php

Not so useful for vehicle camo though as the patterns don't really translate over for the most part.

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MaksimSmelchak
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:27 pm 
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Hi Guys,

L-4 pretty much captured what I owuld have said.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:37 pm 
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Yes, we'd white wash our vehs. for winter or a random white pattern over the basic camo pattern. ?GHQ site shows some great examples thru out the 20th-21st Centuries. I understand "H", I have some USSR uniforms in my closet ... don't ask how I got them ! ? :o0 ?I'll have to check out that site ... cool ! ?Thanks ! ? And have seen most patterns "in the field" and in training manuals ! ?:8): ?Our baggy Camo fatigues and later BDUs were generally very comfortable. ?But I do like the new digital US Army/USMC and Russian patterns. ?Even effective at night so I'm told. ?And camo patterns in WWII were in many cases randomly generated and done based on local needs and commanders. ?And the desert "pink" sometimes came about because the intense desert sun and heat faded the paint to a more "neutral" shade ... my 3 trips to the desert validates that ! ? ?:oops: ?:8:   BTW, any one want some other good camo sites, e-mail me direct !    :;):




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rargh
 Post subject: How is camo painted in real life?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:48 am 
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Hi guys,

first of all, here is an excellent site for cam uniforms:

http://henrikc.dk/camouflage/index.asp

I know that it's not so relevant for vehicles, but yes, most modern armies develop specific patterns that are deemed 'most effective' at disguising the shilouette of the vehicle. The same pattern is applied to EVERY vehicle of that type. Application methods means that sometimes the schemes are not *perfectly* the same, but close. Here is a good example:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land ... erside.jpg

As for painting miniature tanks, which is what the whole thing is aimed at, it doesn't work. Painting all the vehicles in your miniature unit the same pattern will look a bit strange. It comes out better if you vary the patterns. In the same way that painting cammo in the scales we're talking about will either make the vehicle look too busy or the scheme will do what it's supposed to and obscure details! It's best to make a cam pattern that hints at cammo rather than being over the top..

R
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