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Chris 'better' air rules

The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:02 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Note, need help on names, mission names, special rule names etc. Also quite wordy with a lot of repetition, so edits appreciated!

Well, after much deliberation here is my answer to some of the emerging problems and unsatisfactory aspects of air power in Epic.
In essence the following tries to make air power more fun. By using existing Epic mechanics for air combats and giving flak an easier time and more survivability I hope to both enhance air and lessen its impact on the game to that that existed in the core rulebook. Oh and at the same time simplify it. Will I succeed?

Oh, I should state I see Epic as a ground warfare game, with air power providing support or acting as a delivery mechanism. This then is structured around that view.

These rules have been playtested a bit with a few of my regular opponents but of course would need more!

Some of the changes from the current rules include;
Taking flak attacks off from aircraft ? now only ground units can have it.
Having a system for intercepts/dogfights (the Epic assault system).
Removing the chain of events that can happen with bomber attacks being CAP?ed (flak at interceptors, bomber attacks at interceptors etc).
Blast markers have the same effect on air as on ground units.
Having a way to ensure heavy air armies don?t gain a big advantage over ground ones (stopping an air power race) so keeping the Epic game mostly ground focused.
If people do tool up air power wise making that aspect more ?fun?.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:03 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

The rules

Table alteration.
I strongly suggest having an edge strip of you gaming table kept clear. This is for multiple tasks. You may have noticed like me that models on board edges end up on floors and crushed, planes get knocked off and sometimes live/dead/off board reserves can be mixed up.
Having such a strip spare means you can stack counters, reserve units, aircraft and the like there and not get them all mixed up with the game in progress.
For the purpose of the following I will assume you have such a space and that is where aircraft and off table flak is stored.

General Air note
There are no on table moves as such. The aircrafts position isn?t important on approach and exit, but it should be placed next to its target or where it is landing after any intercepts have taken place.

The air rules have two types of unit (flak and aircraft) in them and three special rules (the first replacing the jink special rule, the second is a way to get round some of the limitations of the barrage rules and the third to allow some transports to land).

Special Rule - Wingman
This rule simulates the effect of wingmen in dogfights and bomber defensive formations.
Before an aircraft has attacked ground units or fought in an intercept it may elect to forgo all attacks that turn and instead have a 4+ save (if it has Reinforced Armour only the first save is increased). A plane may act in this way at any time, including in response to a flak attack (but before the dice are rolled), as long as it hasn?t yet fired that turn.
A ?wingman? is still eligible to be suppressed by blast markers.
Note a transport cannot land or disembark troops if it acts in this way.
I suggest turning a plane backwards to show it is acting as a wingman.

Special Rule - Bomber
Some aircraft have specialist ground targeting weapons, heavy weapon loads or devilish attack methods that increase the effectiveness of their ordinance. Whenever these units attack ground targets their weapons receive +1 to hit, just as if they were on sustained fire.

Special Rule - Lander
Most transport aircraft leave the battle area as soon as they can ? their use being landing, extracting and supporting ground troops. There are exceptions. Craft like Space Marine Landers can double as forward command bases or mobile fortresses, others like Ork Landas haven?t a strong grasp of tactics and besides the less flying the more shooting.
Aircraft so noted may land as part of a transport or planetfall mission, taking off in the end phase of any subsequent turns. After they land any eligible formations on overwatch may shoot. If the Lander survives it may shoot as a ground unit and then functions as a ground formation until it takes off again.

Hit allocation
Planes can change formation and fly tight maneuvers to avoid incoming fire. Whenever a formation takes hits the defender may decide in which order and which planes they are assigned to. For instance, a formation of 2 thunderbolts and 1 lightning take 5 hits. Each plane would receive 1 hit and the remaining two could be assigned to a thunderbolt and lightning, or both the thunderbolts. If a formation with multiple damage point aircraft takes hits you must assign hits up to an aircrafts DC before moving to another. For example if a formation of 2 marauder bombers takes two hits you would assign 2 hits to one bomber. You couldn?t assign one hit to each of the bombers.

Blastmarkers
Blastmarkers affect aircraft as normal. Each blastmarker will suppress one airplane. Aircraft receive blastmarkers as a result of intercepts, losing aircraft to unsaved hits, criticals and coming under fire from on table flak. If at any time an air formation breaks due to weight of blastmarkers it aborts its mission and returns to base unless all of its units are ?fearless? in which case it may continue (obviously only useful with transports).

Flak
Units with an ?AA? attack can now be split into two halves.

Tactical (on table) flak
This is a unit on table that can shoot at aircraft.
This may fire if a transport aircraft loads or offloads troops in range of its AA guns, or if an airplane formation attacks a friendly unit in range of its AA guns, in both cases only if the flak unit is not suppressed and has not marched this turn. This is explained more fully in the Ground Attack section.

Strategic (off table) flak
You now have the option to take any number of flak formations and place them off board with your aircraft. They do not count towards any victory conditions and may not be attacked during the game. Once per turn the formation may fire at a -1 modifier at any air formation after it passes an activation roll. The aircraft do not receive a blastmarker for coming under fire.
Rational ? this partially overcomes the weakness of a list with very little flak. You can place a formation off board where it will harass the enemy a bit (but more than the one turn it would last otherwise). So if you face 20 fighter bombers with your 3 Hydra, place them off table. You are less effective and have far fewer shots, but you can?t be destroyed, meaning you will always have some AA cover. It isn?t literally these guns firing but rather represents the decision to concentrate flak assets in the army?s operational area rather than this specific battlefront.

Airplanes.
An airplane formation can be activated as normal during a turn to perform a ground attack. In response airplane formations with the INT ability may activate to intercept or protect it. Ground attacks can be transport missions or bombing runs.

Planes can perform a number of these functions ? the fact they may be called fighters or fighter bombers by there own side merely reflects what they see as there tactical use, rather than in game activities.

Planes stat lines also change ? in place of CC and FF they get DEF (defensive fire) and INT (intercept). Aircraft that cannot land lose AA values and ranges from their weapons (these are no longer needed).

Interceptions
Aircraft on your side capable of intercepting generally loiter in the battle area, or on alert at forward airfields and orbiting spacecraft. Some can be assumed to be accompanying bombers and transports. These planes may initiate intercepts with aircraft performing a ground attack (or trying to stop one) and attempt to shoot them from the sky and evade enemy fighters providing cover to their targets.

After a ground attack is successfully activated you may commit formations that possess an INT value to intercept the enemy fliers. Simply activate one of your formations in the normal way (at -1 if they have any blastmarkers). The enemy may now activate one of their formations that likewise has an INT value on its planes. Players may keep activating in turn and committing more planes until they fail a roll (this formation gains a blastmarker and does not activate this turn as normal). Once all the planes that are going to activate have you fight an intercept.
Note if you do not activate any potential interceptor squadrons as part of your turn your on table turn is over, but you may still attempt to activate them if subsequently in the same turn your opponent declares a ground attack.

Intercepting
Take all the planes that have activated, including the original ground attack formation. The intercept is resolved as one combined assault.
Each intercepting formation must fight using its INT value (planes with multiple DC get one attack per damage capacity). The formation carrying out the ground attack may shoot with either its DEF or INT value.
IMPORTANT NOTE. If a formation carrying out a ground attack uses its INT value its mission is automatically aborted after the interception is resolved regardless of the outcome. They have aborted the mission, jettisoned bomb racks and fuel tanks, to engage in aerial combat.
Roll to hit with each plane involved as with a normal assault. Hit allocation is as described above. The target number for a hit is the value being used (DEF or INT).
Make any saves as appropriate.
Then resolve the intercept.
Each side rolls 2D6 and picks the highest dice, then applies the modifiers listed below.
Outnumbering is calculated after hits and saves are resolved. Each point of starting Damage Capacity on a surviving aircraft counts as one plane.
+1 No blastmarkers on any of your formations.
+1 The enemy has more blastmarkers than you.
+1 You outnumber the enemy.
+1 You have more than twice the enemies number of planes.
+X Where X is the number of unsaved hits done to the enemy.
In the case of a draw fight again from the activating units for intercep step (yes you can reinforce the dogfight!).
Allocate any blastmarkers from unsaved hits now to the appropriate formations.
The difference in modified dice scores is the number of blastmarkers given to the losing side. They are applied as the loser sees fit to his own formations with one restriction. As soon as a formation is broken it cannot receive any more blastmarkers. Any additional blastmarkers left after all surviving losing formations are broken are discarded.
All activated intercepting formations now stand down, taking any blastmarkers they have accrued with them.
If the original ground attack formation is still alive and unbroken (or is fearless and broken) it may now attempt its mission.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:03 pm

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Ground Attack
Any formation selected to perform a ground attack must activate as normal. It may conduct a bombing run or transport operation. Before activating you should declare a target formation. If you do not the formation (and any troops it carries) will not be able to attack anything, but you could still land or extract friendly units.

Bombing run
If you survive any interceptions you may attack a formation on the ground. Place the airplanes next to the formation. If you choose to attack units that are in range of an enemy flak asset (e.g. the tank you are shooting is within 45cm of a hydra) you will come under fire (so you measure to the unit under attack, not the airplane). Any flak units in range shoot before you attack. You receive a blastmarker for coming under fire (though only one no matter how many formations or guns engage you). You may then fire at your target formation, with any relevant modifiers for cover and the ?bomber? special ability if you have it. After the attack you may remove the planes from the table or leave them until the end phase if you think they look good!

Transport operation
Transports land units onto the table and extract them from it, quite often into ?hot? zones as part of an air assault.

Regardless of how many times or how many ground formations attack the transport, it will only receive 1 blastmarker for coming under fire. If at any point it breaks it will abort unless it has the special ability ?fearless?.

Place the transport, if it survives any intercepts, anywhere you like on the table (if you declared a target formation you may land within its units ZoC). On table flak may now shoot if in range of the landing point before any troops are offloaded. Now disembark the troops, 5cm for infantry and tanks, 15cm for jump pack units, they may enter the enemies ZoC and get in base to base contact if that formation was declared the target (with the normal effects for intermingling etc). Any formations on overwatch may now shoot at the transport or the disembarked formation.
Again if you declared a target formation you may when taking off fire your weapons at it just as with a bombing run. Flak that was out of range of your landing point may now shoot if it is in range of any units you are now attacking, just as with a bombing run. The offloaded troops now either shoot or assault the target formation (they must assault if they have entered its ZoC), but cannot move further.

If the transport entered the table empty it may extract a formation. Place the transport, if it survives any intercepts, anywhere on the table. Flak units within range and any formations on overwatch may now fire. After landing you must retain the initiative with the formation you intend to extract and make it board the aircraft. The transport then leaves for home. If some units board and some do not, any remaining on the table are eliminated with a blastmarker placed on the parent formation. If the formation on the ground fails to activate the transport does not hang around and still leaves. You will have to try again next turn!

Run through of sequence (as I?m having problems making it clear).
1 - Is the plane loaded with troops? If yes you may continue on this summary otherwise perform a bombing mission or skip to option 3 (extracting units).
Declare a target formation, if you do not wish to skip to option 2.
Activate plane.
Survive any intercepts.
If you break abort back to home.
Land plane, you may land inside a units ZoC if it is part of your target formation.
Any flak units in range of your landing point may now fire.
If you break abort back to home.
Unload troops. They may, as they unload, enter units from the target formations ZoC and may even if they can move into base to base contact.
Formations on overwatch in range and able to fire (line of sight considerations etc) may now fire at the transport or the unloaded troops.
Take one blastmarker if you come under fire regardless of number of sources.
If you break abort back to home.
You may now conduct a bombing run on the target formation as described above.
Return home.
Regardless of whether or not you broke or performed a bombing run any unloaded units may shoot or assault (without further movement) the target formation. If any unloaded units are within the target formations ZoC they must all assault.

2 - Activate plane
Survive any intercepts.
If you break abort back to home.
Land plane.
Any flak units in range of your landing point may now fire.
If you break abort back to home.
Unload troops.
Formations on overwatch in range and able to fire (line of sight considerations etc) may now fire at the transport or the unloaded troops.
Take one blastmarker if you come under fire regardless of number of sources.
If you break abort back to home.
Return home.

3 ? Declare that you will be trying to extract troops.
Activate plane
Survive any intercepts.
If you break abort back to home.
Land plane.
Any flak units in range or overwatch units in range and able to fire (line of sight considerations etc) may now fire. Take one blastmarker if you come under fire regardless of number of sources.
If you break abort back to home.
If you are not broken retain initiative for the unit to be loaded.
If they fail to activate return home without them.
If they activate try to load them into the transport.
Then return home, if any units boarded the transport eliminate any unloaded units from that formation and apply blastmarkers as normal.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:04 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Turn Sequence

Pre game
Decide what units will be carried by transports and if any formations will deploy off table to provide ?strategic? flak. Place them aside during set up at the same time as teleport formations, space assets and the like.

During the turn
Instead of activating a formation on table you may activate an aircraft formation for a ground attack, with -1 to the initiative roll if it has any blastmarkers on it. You must state the target formation if you want to attack anything, otherwise all you can do is unload troops peacefully. If you fail to activate you stand down for this turn and receive a blastmarker.
Either side may fire as much strategic flak as they like at any air formation as a response to it activating successfully.
Move the planes to a convenient empty spot.
Your opponent may now activate a formation of planes (at -1 if there are any blast markers on it) that are capable of intercepting your craft. You may in return activate a formation that is able to provide cover. And so on until both sides have activated all the formations they can or wish to. Note if an activation test is failed at any time no more attempts with other squadrons can be made for this engagement by that player (but unused planes that didn?t get a chance to try and activate can be called upon later in the turn in response to another ground attack). If you fail to activate you stand down for this turn and take a blastmarker.
Then fight the intercept.
Any survivors that don?t abort are placed either where they are landing or next to the formation they are bombing. Now ground flak may be able to shoot at the aircraft.
Make the attack/load or unload the troops and either head for home immediately or stay over the battlefield until the end phase for photographs.
Note you do not have to activate an air formation and can stand the planes down at the end of the turn with no activation roll required.

End of turn
Make rally rolls as you would for ground formations.

Easy heh?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:05 pm

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Then we have aircraft design.
In general bear the following in mind when designing stats.
Fighters ? good at intercepts, poor at ground attacks
Fighter Bombers ? good at pin point attacks, variable at intercepts
Bombers/Transports ? Can?t do/very poor at intercepts, bombers very good at ?big? attacks on ground targets

Rather than have separate modifiers these can be built into the aircraft stats. The variable interception/defensive fire abilities allow more tweaking than set weapon to hit values and ranges.

Some examples (Note I can?t remember all the weapon names and at this stage not that important, so that?s why they may look a little strange).

PDF atmospheric jet. Outclassed by all and sundry its stats are
Type: Aircraft
Save: None
DEF: None
INT: 6+
Machine guns AP6+
Rockets AT6+

Eldar Nightwing. The best of the best of the few and the brave etc
Type: Aircraft
Save: 4+
DEF: None
INT: 4+
Machine gun AP5+
Cannon AT5+, Extra Attack +1 INT, Lance

A sophisticated Lightning Fighter might have
Type: Plane
Save: 6+
DEF: None
INT: 4+
Lightning Cannon AP6+/AT6+, Extra Attack +1 INT
Cannon AT5+

Imperial Thunderbolt (Heavy Fighter model)
Type: Aircraft
Save: 5+
DEF: None
INT: 2+
Twin Lascannon AT5+
Quad Autocannon AP4+/AT5+

The alien Tau Barracuda could be like
Type: Aircraft
Save: 6+
DEF: 6+
INT: 2+
Cannon, AP5+/AT5+
Burst cannon, AP5+
Guided Missiles, AT6+, Guided Missiles

A dependable Bakka class Thunderbolt Fighter Bomber of the other hand could be
Type: Aircraft
Save: 5+
DEF: None
INT: 3+
Machine Gun, AP4+
Cannon, AP5+/AT6+
Rockets, AT4+

Ork Fighter Bomber
Type: Aircraft
Save: 6+
DEF: 6+
INT: 4+
Machine Gun, AP5+
Rockets, AT4+

Then you start getting into the realms of specialist bombers and transports

Eldar Phoenix Bomber
Type: Aircraft
Save: 5+
DEF: 6+
INT: 4+
Twin Shuriken Cannons, AP5+
Phoenix Pulse Laser, AT5+, Pulse
Night Spinners, 1BP, Disrupt
Notes, Reinforced Armour, Bomber

Tau Tigershark (AX-10) (Just to wind people up

)
Type: Aircraft
Save: 6+
DEF: 6+
INT: None
Twin Linked Burst cannons, AP4+
Missile Bays, AT6+, Guided missiles
Twin Linked Railcannon, MW3+, TK(D3)
Notes, 2DC, critical effect airplane destroyed

Imperial Marauder (Fighter Bomber model ? the little SG one)
Type: Aircraft
Save: 4+
DEF: 6+
INT: 5+
Aerium Cannon, AP6+/AT6+
Rockets, AT5+
Bombs, 1BP
Notes: Bomber

Marauder Bomber (the Forge World dedicated bomber)
Type: Aircraft
Save: 5+
DEF: 5+
INT: None
Bombs 3BP
Notes: Bomber, 2DC, Critical hit: the plane crashes and is destroyed

Finally a Thunderhawk shows them all how to do it.
Type: Plane
Save: 4+
DEF: 4+
INT: 6+
Battlecannon AP4+/AT4+
4 x Twin Heavy Bolter AP4+
Notes: 2DC, Reinforced Armour, Critical hit: the plane crashes and is destroyed, Transport 8, Planetfall, Fearless

Note there should be a clear progression of what is good at what role, though some can do more than one more easily than others.

In general Bombers get a boost, as does flak and you now can run with less and still be covered, finally fighters get to be more useful as both escorts and interceptors.

Hopefully people can take as little or as much air/flak as they like without it dominating the game.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:06 pm

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This is my guess to what ranking the aircraft are in Epic ? Squadron size and initiative rating don?t figure here.

First off interception - how good are they are blowing aircraft out of the sky when attacking/intercepting/flying escort?
This is I think a combination of speed, maneuverability, sensors, racial ability and firepower.

Second, how likely when flying something like a bombing mission would they be of getting hits with defensive weapons on attacking planes?
This is I think a factor of firepower and whether or not it can fire defensively in the first place!

Third, how tough is the plane? That is when attacked who would be the first to go down?
This is I think a factor of armour/construction, speed, maneuverability and racial ability.

For Example I reckon the Eldar would have the best attack/intercept whatever. No defensive fire - they would simply attack! And finally would be one of the toughest, not on par with a dedicated bomber, but better than any other fighter.

Which is the best interceptor?
That is who is most likely to shoot at somebody else and get a hit? A combination of firepower, speed, maneuverability and average pilot skill.

I reckon the following are the best to the worse (each group is a tie).

Now one question is how to factor in armour - which would win out of a Thunderbolt (heavier armour and guns) and lightning (faster and more maneuverable). Say it averages out, or weaken the thunderbolts guns and up its armour?

Eldar Darkstar Interceptor
Eldar Nightwing

Imperial Lightning (Air Superiority Fighter model)
Imperial Fury (Long Range Interceptor)
Chaos Hellblade

Imperial Thunderbolt (Heavy Fighter model)
Tau Barracuda

Imperial Lightning Strike (Fighter Bomber model)
Imperial Thunderbolt (Fighter Bomber model)
Chaos Swiftdeath

Eldar Phoenix
Chaos Helltalon
Tzeentch Doomwing
Ork Fighter Bomber

Imperial Marauder (Fighter Bomber model)
Tau Tigershark & A X 10
Imperial PDF Interceptor worthies

Space Marine Thunderhawk

And for defense? A combination of all over coverage, firepower, speed, maneuverability and pilot skill.

Note planes not on here when intercepted would abort, ditch the weapons and intercept instead (or fly on and hope they don't get hit).

Space Marine Lander

Ork Lander
Space Marine Thunderhawk

Imperial Marauder (Bomber model)
Imperial Starhawk (Long Range Bomber)
Eldar Eagle Bomber

Imperial Marauder Destroyer (Night Bomber model)

Eldar Phoenix

Imperial Marauder (Fighter Bomber model)
Tau Tigershark & A X 10
Tau Orca
Ork Bomber

Ork Fighter Bomber
Eldar Vampire
Chaos Helltalon
Chaos Doomfire
Tzentch Firestorm

Imperial PDF Bomber worthies

These are the best to the worse values, stuff gets slotted in as appropriate.
2x3+
3x5+
2x4+
2+
2x5+
3+
3x6+
4+
2x6+
5+
6+

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:06 pm

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Example of play

The Imperium face the Eldar.
The Imperium has a squadron of 4 Thunderbolts (Bakka pattern), a squadron of 2 Lightning Interceptors and a squadron of 2 Marauder Level Bombers.
The Eldar has a Vampire Raider, a squadron of 3 Phoenix Fighter Bombers and a squadron of 3 Nightwing Interceptors.

Before the game starts terrified Imperials put a formation of Hydra off table. Not to be outdone the Eldar places a troupe of firestorms off table. They then declares some Aspects will be kept off table for transport.

Before turn 1 the vampire loads up (it might not as it could have been a bluff, the level of air threat could have been judged to be to high or it might just have wanted to go bombing).
Its clear a big aerial battle is brewing (handy for this example).

The Turn
The Eldar soften up a formation then summon the Vampire to finish it off. The activation roll is passed.
The Imperium decide to react and send in the lightnings. They activate.
The Eldar then declare the off table firestorms will open up, in response both lightnings swoop around madly to get the advantage of the wingman rule. Several dice later (3x4+ dice, -1 for being off table flak, so 3x5+ with pulse against the increased save of 4+) they both just survive.
The Eldar then activate the Nightwings.
The Imperium goes for broke and throws in the Thunderbolts as well.
Wanting to keep a counter for the Marauders the Eldar don?t commit the Phoenix.

The two sides square off.
The Eldar have 1 vampire (um 2 dice at 6? Should have picked something I did stats for!) and 3 Nightwings (6 dice at 4+, 3 with Lance which has no effect here).
The Imperium have 2 Lightnings (no attacks, both corkscrewing wildly) and 4 Thunderbolts (4 dice at 3+).
The dice roll. The Eldar get 4 hits, sending both Lightnings to their doom but miraculous not harming the Thunderbolts. The Imperium in return gets 2 hits, consigning a Nightwing to the abyss.
Both sides roll two dice and pick the highest, the Imperials get a 4, the Eldar a 3.
The Eldar outnumber (2 Nightwings and a 2 DC Vampire), +1 to their dice roll.
The Eldar got two kills, +2 to their dice roll.
The Imperials got one kill, +1 to their dice roll.
Overall the Eldar win, giving an extra blastmarker to the Thunderbolts, making two on the squadron (one for the result and one for losing a Thunderbolt).
The Vampire now continues it mission and just manages to get through the flak to get home.

In revenge the Marauders declare they will target the Farseers formation and successfully activate.
The Phoenix activate to intercept.
The Hydra open up, no Phoenix wants to be a wingman and Boom! One dies from a lucky hit (-1 to hit so the Hydra formation has 6 dice hitting on 6?s, the Phoenix has a 5+ RA save).
The intercept is equally bloody, another phoenix dies but a Marauder is destroyed by a critical hit (the Marauders have 4 dice hitting on 5?s and a save of 5+ with two DC, the surviving two Phoenix a total of 2 dice hitting on 4?s).
Both sides will be broken after the dice roll anyway but here is how it would be calculated.
Both sides roll two dice and pick the highest, the Imperials get a 6, the Eldar a 1.
Imperials
+1 No blastmarkers on any formations.
+1 The Eldar have more blastmarkers (from losing a plane to flak).
+1 Outnumber the enemy.
+1 Have more than twice the enemies number of planes (2 DC Marauder to 1 Phoenix).
+1 Got one kill.
The Eldar got two kills (the downed Marauder).
Overall the Imperium wins, giving the Eldar 9 extra blastmarkers ? but since the Phoenix are already broken they are discarded.
The loss of a Marauder however aborts the bombing run and no other air activity takes place this turn

End of turn
All formations rally leaving the Eldar spotless and the Imperials with one on each surviving formation.

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:10 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
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Location: London

The word file version.

Hmm, I've been a bit of a lemon here, anyway to stick this at the top of the very first message, sorry I'm half asleep!

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primarch

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:40 pm

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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi!

I view this discussion very similar to the one netepic had over airpower several years ago. The rules went to and fro, from the barebones to the complex. None were to the total satisfaction of the majority.

One thing we learned was that a lot of people didnt use airpower at all. They played the ground aspect and most didnt even consider or use "fliers".

The first thing I'd do is determine how mant epic A players actively use fliers regularly in their games, for that will determine what kind of rules they'd like to see. If use is low, then very simple barebones approaches may be good, if use is high a more detailed system may be in order.

Primarch

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Legion 4

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:30 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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CAS and Transport and FLAK only rules ... CAP/Air2Air out ! :cool:

Lot of good work there Chris ... :;):

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:47 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

It is I think fairly simple, after all uses existing mechanics and a lot of it is re-writing the transport rules to fit.

Certainly air is ever present in the games I see and play, my Imerpails never leave home without at least 2 thunderbolts!

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:16 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

How can you use the CC factor in a dogfight? Ram? Its basically changed to two forms of FF and I considered doing otherwise but I couldn't think of a way to have planes be good at defending themselves and not also be excellent at dogfighting without a list of exceptions.
The 15cm limit wouldn't be a problem as they can all be as close as they like, the fight itself would be stretching over several kilometers.

Ground attack staying the way it is - you mean the approach and exit on table moves? I do think is simpler to have the planes appear, get shot, fly off. Look at footage of planes attacking ships int he falklands they revealed themselves for seconds to attack and otherwise avoided ground fire pretty well. The odd battery they encounter is represented by off table flak.

This relative weakening of on table flak is countered by the fact it is far easier to break airplanes and never how them come back and that flak has a far greater range. Consider now a range 75cm gun can shoot a unit and never get shot back. Now it will be if you can shoot a formation and that target unit is in range of a friendly flak asset it can get covering fire. Overall the flak level is the same I think, theres no moving flak to intercept aircraft during the turn, you can mount whatever weapon you like on a plane and not worry about the effects of range, and you can't snipe.

The bomber ability is simply to make bombers more accentuated as compared to divebombers/fighter-bombers/whatever and to make them more viable as compared to artillary.

Not all bombers get the ability, just the ones that otherwise would underperform. Also should help resist the urge of upgunning them to reach their stated potential.

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Legion 4

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:40 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

CC - only if you're good to ram ... which very rarely happened, but only if you play Air2Air ... which I think should not be in Epic ... however, do what works for you ! :;):

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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Ginger

Post subject: Chris 'better' air rules

Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:32 pm

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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK

L4

You said the same thing in the air wars "creeping" power discussion - could you elaborate a little

Cheers

Ginger

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