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Trouble in paradise?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3391		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  primarch [ Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Hi!

Follow this link and decide for yourself which way the GW wind is blowing.....

http://investor.games-workshop.com/Results....005.htm

It seems GWUS continues to be a problem......

Primarch
Author:  nealhunt [ Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
I don't follow your interpretation, Primarch.

GWUS was down by about the same percent as GWUK, but on an overall sales of about 70% of what GWUK.  In other words, the majority of the drop in reveneu year-over-year came from the GWUK market.

Also, the report stated that the investments in new stores and the new distribution facility in Memphis were beginning to pay off.

In what way do you think this points to GWUS being a problem?
Author:  primarch [ Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Hi!

I said "continues", not as a sole problem or the major one, but as one that is still their from last year (if I recall GWUK did not post a loss last year). GWUS continues to post losses. They do try to attribute it to the Memphis factory and related cost (as you point out they say these are "paying off" now). I'm not sure I buy the excuse, but time will tell if their story holds true or not and if their "strategy" for the US is really profitable or not.

I agree (and I was really surprised by) GWUK's apparent loss. I thought the UK was really solid. It seems GW in Europe is the "golden child" for GW profits and Aus and NZ is pretty strong too.

Jervis posted on the epic boards that the major reorganization of GWUS will take time to take effect. That may be true, but as I said time will tell.

My take is that GWUS poor policy on internet sales is hurting more than it helps.

We'll see....

Primarch
Author:  iblisdrax [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
That and slapping independant retailers in the face....something they tend to avoid mentioning....  :(

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  Jimbo [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
With miniatures like this I am not surprised that they are having problems....

or are they trying to re-capture the glory days of the limited editions of the 1980s...
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:32 am ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
The whole Ogre Army ... is just too stupid for words ! :D  Glad I play only EPIC !!
Author:  primarch [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Hi!

By golly! What a horrible miniature!

I have always felt, even back when I retailed, that GW just doesnt understand the US market. Do they really think that by banning internet sells and discounts people would buy from them at full cost?

Dont know how it is elsewhere, but I dont think that will work.

Also note that they posted a loss even with the increases in prices that period had.

We'll see what happens next.

Primarch
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Speaking of thee Ogre Kingdoms: What the heck is up with that Ogre Ninja ??? ??? ???

Cheers! :)
Author:  netepic [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Ogre ninja was a ridiculous concept... the Gnoblar doing the flying kick however is amusing.

And the name Gnoblar, come on - we have had enough inuendoes regarding Nobz, Boyz, 'ArdBoyz and Big Nobz. Can we not be a little less vulgar in our in-jokes?

People with innocent minds like myself could easily be offended :p
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Quote (netepic @ 27 2005 Jan.,14:11)
People with innocent minds like myself could easily be offended :p

Luckily, English is not my native language so I have no idea what you are talking about.  :-:  :o
Author:  iblisdrax [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
I have always felt, even back when I retailed, that GW just doesnt understand the US market. Do they really think that by banning internet sells and discounts people would buy from them at full cost?


Well, in the case of them trying to say that the increase in stores is the culprit, well, that is going exactly the wrong way, in my opinion.  The nearest one to me is 5 hours away.  You can bet they aren't getting my money.  Matter of fact, the only money GW has gotten from me directly was the Armageddon rulebook.  90% of my Epic forces have come from ebay.  And the other 10% was from the days of the GWUS bitz store, where I ordered multiple sprues of IG.  So I agree that banning all independants and all online sales was a mistake.  If nothing else, it limits exposure of GW products....and that is exactly what Epic and the other specialist games DONT need, less exposure.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
Primarch:  I still don't get where you are coming from on this.

GWUS did not post a loss.  They showed reduced revenue, which is vastly different.  In fact, despite reduced revenues company-wide profits increased due to the increase in margin.  While the profit is not broken down by region, I suspect the US held its own on those lines.

The worst news I would read out of it is that they probably lost market share.  My guess (and I haven't followed it closely) is that the US game market was probably flat for the year due to economic forces.  It may have even dropped a bit.  If it was flat or better, then GWUS lost market share.

That is not great news, but not because GWUS is causing financial trouble.  To me, it points to the fact that GW has probably pushed the elasticity of demand past the point of maximum profitability.  Basically, they didn't increase profit as much as they could have with lower prices and higher volume.


With respect to them understanding the US market, I think you guys are missing the point of banning internet sales.  The goal was not necessarily to drive the sales to GW, but to drive sales to brick and mortar stores.  Those neighborhood game stores provide a primary marketing opportunity for GW.  My understanding is that their marketing research showed that virtually everyone who played GW games was introduced to them in a game shop.  Pushing people into the stores keeps their distribution and marketing outlets open.

GW also has a big hairball regarding the issue of discounting and brand value.  As most of the internet distributors were discounting, I'm sure was also a factor.  But the fact is that they have come down hard on anyone discounting their stuff for years, regardless of whether they were internet or brick and mortar.

====

Whew  :D

All that said, I think they need to cut their prices and/or raise the margins for independent retailers.  I happen to have found out what the profit margins are for a GW store, and I am quite certain that they could share some of that with indy stores in order to gain better marketing from the stores.  Not to mention that if they were more competitive with Confrontation and Warmachine with respect to pricing, they could leverage their current large market share to muscle out the competition.

Then again, it's probably good for the overall industry that they don't... :p
Author:  Jimbo [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
I may have remembered this wrong, but GW didn't ban internet sales they just stopped internet retailers from using GW pictures to sell products!!!

I may be wrong on this.
Author:  iblisdrax [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
You may be right , Jimbo, because there is a Canadian company that sells GW online, but with no pics.  (Great Canadian Minatures)

    I guess I am just annoyed at GW's strategy here in the US because there are no major stores within reasonable distance to me.  And the independent stores, the few that are around, refuse to carry Specialist Games because of the policies of GW.  I just feel that the games that are obscure would benifit more from exposure over multiple web sites.  Maybe I'm just wrong.  ???
    I suppose, if there were a store in my area that supported GW and Specialist games, and actually ran a game night or something, that I would feel different than I do.  I have to wonder, though, how many people are out there like me in the United States?

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Trouble in paradise?
>> And the independent stores, the few that are around, refuse to carry Specialist Games because of the policies of GW.

What I've heard from the guys I know who own stores is that the SG distribution system is separate so it is a hassle to deal with and because the orders are smaller the margins go down.

Jervis addressed the business reasons for doing this a while back on the SG boards.  Basically, they were trying to get it re-arranged so they could counter those problems.  Personally, I hope that the SG studio being re-integrated with the rest of it will mean that they will merge the distribution systems.

So far the guys I've asked have been split on whether they think it will happen or not.
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