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A time of trial

 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:02 pm 
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Hi all,
My dearth of Epic Eldar work is the result of my preparations for the Warhammer 40K and Fantasy tournaments, next weekend (or rather, the preparation of a new 40K army for the occasion). I thought I'd share the experience with you lot, and give you a taste of what a Maltese tournament is like.
The tournament is what we call the lesser or winter one - the more important tournament is held in September, and it's being closely monitored by GW, who for the first time last year sent a rep to act as a judge and present GW-sponsored prizes (Forgeworld large scale figures) to the winners. The winter tourney is a slightly smaller affair, but it's rumoured GW are sponsoring the prizes again. It's organized by the local GW agent, a shop owned by a close friend of mine, and held at the University (so I'll be playing 'home'). The tourney is a bit gruelling, with the 40K one on Saturday (4 games per player) and the Warhammer one on the next day, with the same format. There's usually around 24 participants per tournament, but interest in both games is rising (pity there's not time for an EA demo - perhaps I should refrain from taking part to provide that!). The method used is Swiss pairing, with a random pairing for the first round, and matching by points won in previous battles in subsequent ones. Standard Warhammer National Tournament rules are used, with points for battles, painting, sportsmanship etc.  
The summer tourney is usually an ordeal, with temperatures over 35 degrees C and loads of people stuffed in one room playing four games in a row. The next weekend one should be less taxing; worst bit is storing the 40K army on Saturday evening and getting the WH one packed for travel instead - must buy a second battlebarge (i.e. tool box for transporting troops).
This year I'm entering with my usual Chaos warrior army in WHFB, although it's chaos undivided all the way for a change. In 40K the Legio Fausta space marines should be a surprise, as this is the first time I'm entering a tournament with anything other than a Chaos force (well, barring Man O' War, with my Skaven fleet). Don't expect too much, though - I always seem to loose all my battles in 40K - and getting slotted EACH tournament against one of the two  Iron Warriors players with at least 79 lascannons per army is a trial. I'm terrible at army selection, and worse at die-rolling. I'm acrtually famed for being asked to roll a die to see if it comes up a 1 - which it usually does. And a year ago, when the initial randomly drawn pairings were called out, I was last drawn in BOTH WH40K and WHFB tournaments - this sort of stuff always happens, and people have started to expect it. Last summer was worse - I wasn't drawn last, but had to play all my afternoon games on a sunlit table (temp around 40 thuis time round!); there was no direct sunlight in the mornings, when I was tucked well away from the windows and any chance of a breeze... Ok, end of moaning.

This year's 40K army includes a bundle of rocket launchers and a Whirlwind, so I'm taking a pyrotrechnic approach. I was influenced by a Black Templar Space Marine who, when accompanying an Inquisitor (as an ordinary marine, in this case) against Slaanesh, managed to off a few Noise Marines and (better still) a Dreadnought as soon as it turned up as a reinforcement:
opponent rolls for dreadnought arrival in turn 5 or something - 'at last!' - relief on his side
dreadnought steps on table
my turn - space marine stands up, aims, looses a krak missile, nonchalantly offs Dread.

Ok, it won't happen every time. but I'm hoping. And anyway, rocket launchers are highly versatile, with both krak and frag rockets, so I have high hopes.

In the WHFB tourney, I'm going to try to have a bit of fun with a giant. Never used one (of course, why practice at all?), but should at least be entertaining.

More during the build-up this week. Have five marines to complete, so must go.
cheers.  :O

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:08 pm 
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Good info.

I cannot give any kind of advise when it comes to 40k since I have very limited experience there, but in case you want to share with us your lists I might be able to give you some feedback on your fantasy force.

What we need to accurately comment on a force is the usual:

1) Tactic you plan to use
2) Army list
3) Special thoughts you had over any specific point on the list or tactic.

Hope that helped,

Xavi

PS: Best wishes for the tournament!! :D

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:41 pm 
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Quote (Xavi @ 22 2004 Feb.,19:08)
... but in case you want to share with us your lists I might be able to give you some feedback on your fantasy force.

What we need to accurately comment on a force is the usual:

1) Tactic you plan to use
2) Army list
3) Special thoughts you had over any specific point on the list or tactic.

PS: Best wishes for the tournament!! :D

Thanks Xavi, I need all the luck I can get. Re tactics and army composition - I'll be posting these for both armies later today or maybe tomorrow; perhaps with background too. All help would be welcome.
Cheers again.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:17 pm 
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WH40K: Codex Space Marines of Legio Fausta

Commander, power weapon, bolt pistol

tac squad of 6, missile launcher, flamer, Rhino
tac squad of 6, missile launcher, flamer, Razorback w. multimelta
tac squad of 5, nissile launcher, Razorback w. twin lascannon

terminator squad of 6, 2 heavy flamers

Dreadnought w. plasma cannon

Whirlind
2 x Devastator squads of 7 marines, with 4 missile launchers each

Tactics: Heavy S offer suppressive fire, tactical squads sit back against close combat armies, and advance down one flamk against fire-heavy armies. Termies and Dread support tac squads and make a general expensive nuisance of themselves. Commander bags a ride with one of the tac squads, or sits back with the Terminators.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:30 pm 
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WHFB army - Vhortek's embassy

Note - all troops which can have a mark are Chaos Undivided

Chaos lord with crown of everlasting conquest, armour of damnation 2-handed weapon; fire sorcerer with 2 DM scrolls; both with unit of 14 Chaos Warriors with shield, 2-handed weapons; War Banner.

Chaos exalted champion with sword of rending with unit of 15 Chaos Warriors with shield, 2-handed weapons.

Chaos exalted champion with crimson armour of Dargan, rune shield, chaos steed, with 4 chosen knights.

6 chaos hounds.
6 chaos hounds.
5 furies.
spawn.
giant.

Why no Marauders? Well, this was meant to be my last tournament battle with chaos, so I got my most nostalgia-bound troops out and added a giant to use him for the first and last time. I only recently aquired a sufficient number of Marauders to make them worth taking, but they're still unpainted, so no go. If they were ready, I'd consider a unit of 30. I know the knights are a bit over the top, but I couldn't have a last battle without them, and I could never use them as anything other than chosen. My comments on my poor army selection should now start to make sense....

Tactics: main punch in two large warrior units with characters in second wave, following at their own pace the knights and giant who will advance on a flank. Hounds are there to mess skirmishers and scouts and to 'catch' arrows etc. The spawn is there to make a mess by advancing 2 inches per turn, provide a target, and possibly hold some enemy troops for the odd turn while I figure out what a giant can do - the latter is also an expensive fire magnet; if he gets in action, I'm counting on his terror-causing more than his skill. The sorcerer is there for his dispel scrolls - if he can let off a spell successfully I'll consider it a bonus.
Oh, and I'm not turning to any of the Chaos powers; I've tried all in turn, and have had some victories, but this time it's chaos undivided for sure. There's news of chaos dwarfs on the horizon, and these short guys are my absolute favourite WHFB army. Seems they'll now fit in with C undivided, giving Chaos a gift of cannon..... anyway, this might just not be my last battle with chaos after all!
cheers

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:33 pm 
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Legio Fausta blurb - note that these marines are the predecessors to the Ares Guard, my pending Epic Chapter which I had described some months back.

+++ Inquisitor Gastrantonius report on Legio Fausta+++
+++ transmissio brevis +++

Lords of the Enclave,
I present my preliminary report on the Astartes Legio Fausta, as decreed by my master, Lord Parafulmen. The Legio Fausta, also known as the Sons of Janus, although the name is now rarely used, are a remnant legion. Chapter Master Macallus and a full two thirds of the legion were killed in the Sellaba disaster (cf. Demiurg at Sella). The remaining troops, believed to number just over three hundred, were left leaderless and with vastly diminished resources. The Hegel Diet recommended dissolution of the chapter, with a halt to recruitment and fragmentary posting of the remnants of the Legio to widespread outposts. No representative of the Legio Fausta itself attended, the chapter remaining in conclave on their remaining Battle Barge (cf. Janus) to elect a new leader. Prefectorate factions (cf. founding planet Nova Fausta, customs) supported their respective contenders until the Legio Fausta appeared ready to disintegrate entirely. News of the diet arrived to cement the factions in the semblance of a legion. It was agreed to give Tech-Commander Wegman, a senior Techmarine bound to no faction as a result of his devotion to the Machine god,  temporary command of the chapter until the new master could be elected. The Legio Fausta defied the diet, and continues to fight for the Emperor in the Segmentum Pacifica. Unsupported by Imperial resources, they have organized raids on supply outposts to sustain their activity. Most worrying are rumours that suggests use of supplies captured from Chaos troops, including a large number of rocket launchers.

The following are brief commentaries on Legio Fausta characteristics:
Organization ? the original organization had the Legio divided into 10 centuries; the identity of these centuries, simply numbered I to X, exists still, although the numbers are far lower than the original hundred troops per century. It is believed that the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 8th centuries were entirely wiped out. Current squads are observed to include troops of different centuries. Terminator squads have been in action consistently, supported by relatively large numbers of Devastator squads. Very few vehicles are in use by the Legio, with the heaviest observed being a small number of Whirlwinds.
Colours ? the original half-black and half-white colours are not in regular use. The contenders for chapter master had all proposed their own scheme variants, based on Prefectorate colours, and had these applied to their factions, with the result that Legio armour today includes black, white, red, metal and multi-colour scheme variants. The sole unifying feature is a yellow shoulder pad with the century number in black. A handful of chapter members bear jade helmets or other artefacts traditional to one of the systems conquered by the Legio.

My investigation of the chapter will proceed in two areas:
1 ? The possibility of a taint of Chaos in the Legio Fausta.
2 ? Rumours of new recruitment and the induction of Scout Marines in the Legio from sources unknown.

With your concordance I will forward a copy of this report to Chapter Master Grimnir of the Space Wolves, empowering him to act against the Legio Fausta if needs arise.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:35 pm 
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WHFB fluff - note, Lord Vhortek is my long suffering c-in-c of chaos in WHFB; he never made it to the battlefield himself - yet.

Lord Vhortek?s Embassy

Vhortek?s end was nigh. After centuries of service, the Chaos gods had abandoned him.  Fickle as they were, they had tired of him. They had not taunted him. They had not even turned him into a spawn. They had forgotten him. Even grandfather Nurgle, in whose service he had worked hardest, had turned his back on him.

Archaon had been his end. All attention, all the eyes of Chaos were on Archaon. Vhortek?s years of service, holding the bastions of Chaos, were forgotten. All his legions of daemons were gone ? all but a few of the laziest of Furies still haunting the old aviary. All that were left to him were a handful of his chosen, a dozen disgraced warriors, and his chamberlain, the old giant Boroz. They could probably drag some of the toothless warhounds out of their kennels. Oh, and there was that young sorcerer ? the refugee, the Imperial outcast. He was an unimpressive performer, but he had brought news ? valuable news. News of the old race. The bearded warriors. The Dwarfs of Chaos. The cannon makers. If he could find them again? if he could make an alliance with them, or better still, subjugate them?even the vapid Slaanesh would take note of a battery of cannon. There were possibilities. Vhortek was old, but his mind was still open to ideas, and this was a good one.

?Boroz! Saddle Marauder! We?re heading South ? and you?re coming too.?
It might mean his end; but it could also be an upset for the upstart Archaon, and Vhortek was willing to risk anything to be the one to do it.  He had gained a healthy respect for artillery, and knew that cannon could lead him back on the path of glory.

On the point of setting out,  the white-haired chaos lord received portentious visitor ? a Chaos Dwarf from the South. The dwarf Zharrat One-eye was an envoy from Zharr-Nagrond, and was willing to lead an embassy back to his homelands to establish contact with the warsmiths of Chaos. Recognizing his worth, Vhortek had the remains of the Crown of Everlasting Conquest embedded in the dwarf?s tall helm, hoping to ensure his survival for the duration of the mission by means of its powers of regeneration. The army set out, absorbing a broken champion and a spawn in its ranks. At the High Pass Vhortek received a summons from the daemon Be?lakor. He could not refuse the call, and set off astride his dragon Marauder, leaving Zharrat in command  of the mission under the watchful eye of Boroz.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 9:17 pm 
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40K ARMY

Yeah, I know I said that I would not comment on this one but I feel like doing it ;)

1) If you are going for a single character, I would go for the usual bargain: a chaplain. You get the same combo that you put PLUS a 4+ qard save for a much less expensive cost. ;Much more efficient. Allows you to boost other stuff.

2) I would equip one of the devastator squads with heavy bolters intead of missile launchers. Yeah, the missile launcher is really flexible, but is not maxed against anything. Ypu seem to have a lack of mass destruction weapons ecept for your wirldwind, so I would go for 2 devastator squads (fine to me buit equiping them to kill masses of cannon fodder and lightly armoured people (one with heavy bolter) and the other to take down general stuff and tanks (3 missiles, 1 lascannon, eve if this last one is optional)

3) your razorbacks don't seem to be *that* efficient. Razorbacks have the usual problem of being constructed using chewing gum and spare leaves from last fall, so somebody bothering to spit at them is likely to open a nice big hole in them. If you have invested a lot of points in their firepower that can cetrtainly be a problem. I think you have dfone so with the multimelta and lascannons. A lascannon in the dev squad is much more survivable and the multimelta...well, I am not a great fan of it myself at all. If I wanted to use one it would be on a speeder, not a razorback that is likely to be a main target (bad for stuff transporting people around while not being really armoured). Heavy bolters are nice, and one with lascannons is OK, but I would go for less points invested here and taking a speeder with the saved points.

4) Your squads are smallish. Try to bump them up.

5) I prefer fusion guns over flammers. It is where I place my armopur penetration weapons. They are more survivable than your transports (loads of other marines to take the hits) and are better than a plasma gun on the run if the unit is moving.

6) Looks lije a shooty army. You might have a problem when the enemy reaches your lines since you only have the termis to deal with him there. A veteran squad on a rhino equiped for H2H or a small assault unit might help you here.



If you don't have the models, disregards any of the comments above ;)
____


FANTASY CHAOS ARMY

ARGH!!! Sorry, but it seems to be hellishly small! I have at least twice the number of units when playing at 1500! :oo Something must be done here, hehe ;)

1) Drop the chaos lord. It is awfully expensive. I would change it with a legendary dude with the armor of damnation, shield, great weapon, spteed et al. It is very effective and you save A LOT of points

2) For a second character I would go for a legendary dude as well with the Gaze of the Gods (is that the name in english? 4+ ward save) and max armour (non magical) with a great weapon. That gives you a very strong fighter character core.

3) Third (and forth if any) characters should be mages. usually I have seen defensive mages around in chaos armies, (level 1, 2 scrolls) but that is up to you.

4) BARBARIANS AND DOGS!!!! I cannot stress more the importance of support units in WHFB. Read my signature if you doubt that :D lol You need more of those. In faxct you don't have neither a strong core of support units nor of main battle units. As I said the list seems to me to be awfully small. 1 or 2 units of knights coupled with 2-3 units if MOUNTED barbarians with flails and musician (support units, so 5 strong)and 3 units of dogs is a minimum. Most people trades the second unit of knights by a dragon ogre unit at 1500, but at 2k you can afford both of them. 4 DO with cgreat weapons and armour are a force to be reconned.

5) Try to upgrade the furies a little bit. I am aware you arplaying absolute, but the fishes (tzeench demons) are quite handy to have 2 flying units as well, speciially if you are facing superior magic and send the fishes to go mage-hunting with their special attack


6) The giant seems a funny good adition. Tell us how it comes! :D

7) infantry in chaos armies tend to be short lives, not useful and morte a hindrance and point sinker than actually good units. Having said that I have a plan for an all barbarian list ;) but in general they are not a very good option in tourney play.

8) A herd of beastmen is usually useful, but I suppose you don't have them. They are cheap and useful, and move 24 cm so they are relatively fast.

For tactics, an assault in BOTH flanks seem to work quite well. Each task force is one maihn battle unit (DO or chosen knights) supported by at least one unit of each hounds & mounted marauders andding up to 4-5 supprt units per flank. A unit of knights that is not chosen act as a semi-main battle unit in case the main one suffers an early demise. The characters, one on each flank acting as a unit on their own.They are hard as nails, so guess :cool:

As above, if you don't have the models or don't want to use the advise, pass over the comments. :cool:

Hope all this rant helped,

Xavi

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:29 am 
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Good stuff!  Any chance for a few pics, maybe?

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:37 am 
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Hi Xavi and I.Drax,
re pics - as soon as I find time I will post some.
re 40K army - the problem Xavi is that (as you hinted at the bottom of your comments) the only other alternative models I have are a librarian on a bike, a single assault marine, an unpainted Land Raider (no way - two expensive in points, and unpainted) and (!) a chaplain which could be finished on time. The chaplain thing is that i've seen to many of them and (yes, I know it's not tactically brilliant) I'd like to try something else. One thing I want to add (and have to model) is a teleport homer, as teleporting is allowed in the scenario selected for the tournamnet. Re loads of close compbat types - well I'm counting on a regular lack of scenery for the tournament, with great fields of fire. Thanks for the coments, though.

Re WH - good points generally, but my Beasts and Marauders are (brilliantly) unpainted...the warriors date from around 1998! Re Gaze of gods - is that the one in which you turn into a spawn if the character flees? (the character, not you!) If so, I'd never touch it - in earlier editions of the Chaos army, any character who could for some reason become a spawn DID become a spawn. Not that I have anything against spawn, but...
Re both flanks - hmm, not enough troops for that! I just hope I don't come up against that ###***~~~&^&^& steam tank again.
Thanks again.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:08 pm 
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Ok, so we have a model problem. Well, this is the best I can do. It is an ideal escenario from my point of view :D Since you don't have ther models my comments go down the ladder quite some steps, though.

I like the hommer idea. Be careful, though. Do not teleport them in the open or you are gonna have a unit of dead terminators. You can teleport oyut of LOS of most enemies if you place your character correctly, you know.

If you have a single assault marine, why not turn him into your general? IIRC thejump opack and bike add a lot of mobility to your charcers, so using those to pick the best teleport position for your dudes (behind an already dead transport you speeded up towards the enemy, for example) is a good idea. Makes you able to pick your targets as well.

In general, if you cannot work with your troops, try to work around your characters. And in case you have more marines USE THEM!!! Army is still awfully small.

The situation in WHF is even worse. I wouldn't really mind that much against the steam tank with chaos but experioenced players would use other stuff, mainly support units to beat you. Big bad units are useless against a good player. Gonna love diverting :D Well, if you don't have the models, would you mind posting the EXACT list of yours (you forgot about the chaos warriors in your list among other things) so I can try to think about something? Thx :cool:

The gaze of the gods is what you described, buit only turns you into a chaos spawn if you are not rallied at the start of the chaos magic phase. Tht means that you get to rally at least once. If your dice are like mine, yup, he will be turned into a spawn none the less but a special save of 4+ is nothing to snif at. And spawns are cool :D and the dude is cheap for a character. Around 150 points

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:05 am 
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The warriors were mentioned along with the characters who will be leading them - two units, of 14 and 15 warriors respectively.
Re 40K - the jump pack 'character' could work out, although as he isn't too well equipped (chain sword, bolt pistol). Might try to find time to fit in a power sword at least.
Re more marines -I think I have a total of ONE more painted marine - armed with just a bolter.....

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:27 pm 
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So the list is:

CHARACTERS

1) Chaos lord with crown of everlasting conquest, armour of damnation 2-handed weapon
OK, footlord beefed up. I already said that I think it is not the best choice, a point sinker and limited effectiveness compared to other stuff, but if you want it.... You could get a full 2 uniots or 2 characters instead of him! IMO one of the weakest links in your whole army list :(

2) fire sorcerer with 2 DM scrolls;
What level is that mage?

3) Chaos exalted champion with sword of rending
What armor does it wear?

4) Chaos exalted champion with crimson armour of Dargan, rune shield, chaos steed
I assume it wears barding as well?


TROOPS:

- 14 Chaos Warriors with shield, 2-handed weapons; War Banner.

- 15 Chaos Warriors with shield, 2-handed weapons.

- 4 chosen knights.

- 6 chaos hounds.

- 6 chaos hounds.

- 5 furies.

- spawn.

- giant.


Tell me if I failed to seesomething :) Would you mind pointing out ANY other models that you have and that can be used for this army? Even imperial, bretonian or elven (corrupted) troops can work if they are not *too* blatantly "good dudes".

So far I see a few mistakes that can be corrected, but I would like to know the model availability before doing so :cool: Thx a lot. Oh, and again, feel free to flush any comments I make that you don't like :D lol

Regards,

Xavi

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:21 am 
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That's them ok.
re 'footlord' (hey, nice name!) - if I had more models, yes, you're right - also, have had a spate of 2-wound character losses recently - the 3rd wound is my major concern; and note the multiple armour.
re sorcerer - L2 (hey , is L4 a sorcerer then? :o )
re footchampion - Chaos armour
re mounted champ - yes, with barding

Other painted and completed models which could be reasonably used (i.e. none of the x thousand points of unpainted reserves) BARRING anything with a mark other than undivided (thick headed, I know...):

3 armoured ogres
another sorcerer (of the fiery persuasion as well)
one daemon prince of C undivided
3 marauders (which need rebasing)
one chaos dwarf......

this is bad, isn't it?

:{
Thanks Xavi.

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 Post subject: A time of trial
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2004 11:44 am 
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Well, let's say it is not the style of army I would be fielding, but we can improve it :cool: And overall remember that is not exactly WHAT you have but HOW you use it that is more important.

Comments coming this afternoon.

Regards,

Xavi

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