A colonel might, but a commissar must surely order at least one battery to fire at the retreating company to 'encourage' them and remind them of their duty to the Emperor.
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| A great source for Imperial Guard ideas http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=26447 |
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| Author: | wellspring [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
This may be old news to the history buffs (and professionals) on the site. I've just read a short but very, very interesting book. Inside the Soviet Army, by "Viktor Suvorov". This is an alias; he was an officer in the GRU (Soviet military intelligence) who defected to Britain. Some of Suvorov's more recent work as a historian is controversial, but I don't know of anyone who disputes his account of Soviet organization and tactics. (Another book, Inside the Aquarium, details his time in the GRU, including his stint with Spetznaz. It's a very fun read.) Short and very well-written; I plowed through each in a night. I'll mostly talk about the first book. The book is rife with hard, specific details of the 1970s-era Soviet military machine. Obviously of interest to modern gamers, but I think that Imperial Guard players need to take a very hard look at this book for ideas. I was going to go through some of the things I spotted, but I'll just give you a taste for now: "When I lecture to Western officers on tactics in the Soviet Army, I often close my talk by putting a question to them-always the same one-in order to be sure that they have understood me correctly. The question is trivial and elementary. Three Soviet motor-rifle companies are on the move in the same sector. The first has come under murderous fire and its attack has crumbled, the second is advancing slowly, with heavy losses, the third has suffered an enemy counter-attack and, having lost all its command personnel, is retreating. The commander of the regiment to which these companies belong has three tank companies and three artillery batteries in reserve. Try and guess, I say, how this regimental commander uses his reserves to support his three companies. `You are to guess,' I say, `what steps a Soviet regimental commander would take, not a Western one but a Soviet, a Soviet, a Soviet one.' I have never yet received the correct reply." Take a moment and think about that one. The answer would be immediately obvious to any colonel of the Imperial Guard (or his Commissar!) "Yet in this situation there is only one possible answer. From the platoon level to that of the Supreme Commander all would agree that there is only one possible decision: all three tank companies and all three artillery batteries must be used to strengthen the company which is moving ahead, however slowly. The others, which are suffering losses, certainly do not qualify for help. If the regimental commander, in a state of drunkenness or from sheer stupidity, were to make any other decision he would, of course, be immediately relieved of his command, reduced to the ranks and sent to pay for his mistake with his own blood, in a penal battalion." There's a lot more, but this is a book that's easy to find on Amazon, cheap, very fast to read, and really, really good at putting you into the mindset of an IG general officer. I suspect I've just discovered what many of you already know, but it's worth mentioning. |
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| Author: | carlisimo109 [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
I just came across this post and it's awesome - thanks! |
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| Author: | Peta [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
A colonel might, but a commissar must surely order at least one battery to fire at the retreating company to 'encourage' them and remind them of their duty to the Emperor.
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
After serving over a decade in my youth; as a Cadet '75-'79 and as an active duty US ARMY Infantry Officer '79 - '90 ... Serving in 4 Inf Bns (1 Air Assault , 3 Mech). And 1 year as an Intel Officer in the US ARMY RES. I'm very well versed on the USSR's weapons and tactics. I prefer the way we do things in the US ARMY/NATO ... over those Commies from the Evil Empire !  Remember, the West/US/NATO defeated Soviet "Proxy" armies in the Middle East, trained and equipted by the USSR. [ Of course those Middle East armies were not as capable as the Soviets] I prefer to learn what the enemy does, and use US/NATO tactics and techinques ... to defeat him. I'm a very old Cold War Warrior ...  Old habits die hard ...   I use US tactics and techiques when deploying my IG and SM forces ... and pretty much all my 6mm Sci-fi forces for that matter. I like when gaming to see the other side using USSR type tactics ... The USSR has a predilection to take heavy losses in offensive ops ... I try to increase those losses ... 
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
Legion 4 wrote: Remember, the West/US/NATO defeated Soviet "Proxy" armies in the Middle East, trained and equipted by the USSR. [ Of course those Middle East armies were not as capable as the Soviets] Coff. Nam, coff
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
Won on the battlefield ... lost in the media and DC ... US Losses @ 60,000 vs. VC/NVA losses somewhere around a million ...  Plus the VC/NVA were not using USSR tactics only weapons ...
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
True, when you've got a president personally approving individual bombing missions and targets, something's gone pear-shaped. OTOH it also shows a complete failure of the American Military to adapt to the tactical necessities of the conflict, the air cav and the the "men with painted face" being notable exceptions. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
US Military Infantrymen adapted fairly quickly to the specifics of jungle warfare ... but in the long run the VC/NVA were not going anywhere ... they just had to wait ... and they did ... That and not run out of bodies, in a war of attrition ... and they didn't ... |
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| Author: | jimmyzimms [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
The individual rifleman in the field were not the issue. The good old boys club running the show and the embedded bureaucracy of the JCoS on down were not seeing the war for what it was. Also treating it as a political police action was a recipe for disaster. The nightly body counts on the news just showed how disconnected the leadership was, it wasn't an attrition based war. We killed more so we're winning, right? This was the first large scale asymmetric warfare seen by a western power (and one that the Soviets would later encounter to the same devastating effect in Afghanistan). You're totally right that the NVA wasn't going anywhere but the VC was effectively destroyed by the Tet Offensive. After the initial shock wore off this was a type of fighting the US military was adept at waging. The outcome being the VC ceased to exist as an organized force thereafter; The loss of men and more important, materials being huge. Regardless, tough ugly fighting for those in the theatre. I always appreciated that deleted scene We Were Soldiers where Moore was reading from the diary of the NVA soldier that almost bayonetted him earlier in the film stating, "they [NVA] are already home". |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
I don't think many realize that after Tet, the VC were pretty significantly attrited to the point as far as being combat effective. As well as the NVA were also damaged. Making it very difficult to go on a major offensive until the '72 Year of The Rat operation. With at that time, the VC/NLF really effectively only could field about 3 Regts worth in the Cham Coast region. And they were fleshed out with some NVA. They lost Tet on the battlefield but won in the media on the TVs and streets of the USA. One of the other things some don't realize either is the NVA pushed VC/NLF units forward during Tet. They didn't want to have to deal with Nationalists from the South once the US left. And for every hard core Communist in the NLF, there were as many Nationalists ... |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
yeah, the great tragedy. If america had supported HCM's request for aid in independence, he wouldn't have turned to the communists for support. I would like to see a game that explored the full gamut of VCN tactics, not just the paraody 'human wave until american go home'. In guerillia tactics, to a large extent they ran circles around the US troops (literally in some cases). You can't blame everything on the politicians  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLF_and_PA ... le_tactics |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
I agree ... US OSS type units inflitrated French Indo-China during WWII. To set up "ratlines" for downed pilots from the CBI, etc. ... As well as supporting HCM's fledgling anti-Japanese forces. Much like what eventually went on in the PI after the fall of Bataan, etc. ... The OSS said, once the war with the IJFs was over, the US would support HCM's bid for national independence. Ho even showed up at the end of WWI, at the Tready of Versailles to get US/Woodrow Wilson's support for Vietnam's freedom for the French. But like much of Wilson's idealism the old European powers (France, UK, etc.) found it a threat to their colonies. Look at what they did when dividing up the Middle East after the defeat of the Turks. Some would say those actions still reverberate today with the Middle East situations ... Ho was hoping after WWII, Vietnam would become somewhat like the PI was to the US. Not so much a colony but a "commonwealth" ... But after WWII the French wanted Indo-China back. And we know what happened after that. Now for VC tactics ... Initially the US had to take out the old book of Guerilla tactics/ lessons learned from the PI and other similar ops during WWII. I don't blame everything on DC. But the US had to re-learn how to fight like the guerilla. Not the conventional battles they foresaw in Europe. However, once the US learned how to fight like "Charlie" ... especially with Spec Ops units. Along with our massive US firepower in the air. I think the US Grunt proved that the lessons learned from fighting the IJF in the jungles conventually or as the guerilla, proved a match for either the NLF/VC and NVA ... in most cases ... Of course I'm biased ... As a young cadet and later a young 2LT, many of our instructors were combat vets of the 'nam. As were our senior NCOs and Officers once I was assigned to the 101, in '80. We learned some very good lessons, from them ... That I continued to use thru out my career ... Again of course ... I'm biased ... But as it shows in the article you posted, most of which I had read or seen before, the NLF/VC/NVA were experienced from fighting the French, it was their backyard. They were willing to take large losses, and they were not going anywhere ... they were willing to fight a battle of attrition. And inflict many losses to the US/SEATO, until the "invaders" got tired and went home ... |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A great source for Imperial Guard ideas |
oh yeah, the americans were just a brief pitstop along a couple of centuries of warfare. stupid country brawls rather then fights
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