Tactical Command
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What the heck is going on
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=25803		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KTG17 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  What the heck is going on
Hey guys, its been a really long time and I am sure only a few remember me. I used to go by Gandalf the Grey here (I still see a few posts from me, but I have long forgotten the email and password behind the account). I used to go by Knowlton on the old Epic Armageddon development forums. Ha! i just remembered I used to argue with that Pixelgeek guy all the time.

I had dropped out of gaming, sold most of what I had except for some core favorites (dont worry, it includes some of my Epic stuff although I did sell some of it :( ).

Anyway, after zero interest in 40k for the last 2-3 versions, Dark Vengeance got my curiosity and my girlfriend recently bought me the limited edition box set off Amazon and wow. I havent been so impressed with a GW game in quite some time. So anyway I started checking around my old gaming stomping grounds to see what I had been missing the last few years and see that GW seems to have let Epic whither on the wine... there is barely anything for sale on the GW site. Sucks. Well, if any of you remember, it wasnt too far into EpicA development did I start vocalizing how I didnt think it would be really successful anyway. Blame GW, Jervis, whoever, it just didnt bring in the $$$ enough to keep it in their strategic plans. Maybe some day we'll get Epic one of those yearly mystery boxes like they did with Space Hulk.

So what have you guys been up to? I see there is a TON of forum sections for games I have never heard of. Kind of afraid to go exploring around.... lol
Author:  Dave [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Ya, GW canned all Specialist Games earlier this year. Well canned it more I guess, rules development stopped years ago, now the models aren't being made. It sucks, but the second hand maker it thriving and there's plenty of proxies out there and in the works (Dark Realm Miniatures, Exodus Wars, Microworld Games, Onslaught Miniatures).
Author:  KTG17 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
You know I wonder if they are being canned due to GQ moving away from metal, as their finecast range is in resin. Maybe they arent as dead as we believe. Not that I think everything is going to get recast in resin...

Unless, did GW say they were gone for good?
Author:  Dave [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
They're definitely gone for good. There's rumors about that the culling has something to do with some impending sale of the company.
Author:  Parintachin [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
There's been little to no communication from GW; suddenly the products just started dropping from their site. There's a little still, but really, it's just scraps.
But yes, Great opportunities for the other makers of 6mm miniatures.

And the game is as great as ever - have a look at the new crowdsourced rules in the Rules boards. There's a list for Everything these days, and most of them pretty well writ and balanced (o:
Author:  GlynG [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Hey there, I vaguely recognise your old username from old threads.

You've missed quite a lot and things have waxed and waned but Epic Armageddon is still going strong. I'll give you an eclectic catch-up on what you've missed. The community has well and truly taken over developing Epic and the 2013 Tournament Pack was released recently and the 2012 Compendium includes a wide range of developed armies, some of which may be less tested.

A large group of tournament players went their own separate way and produced their own version of army lists on their site, mostly based on the Net-EA ones but with some things tweaked and some all new lists. I'm not sure if you're in the UK or not, but there's roughly 10 or so Epic Armageddon tournaments run by them in the UK every year.

There was a golden age of fan made Epic models, using CAD and matter printing which produced much higher quality models than the GW ones, but a cease and desist but a stop to that.

Evil and Chaos from the forums ran a successful (over 5 times the amount asked for) Indiegogo fundraising campaign to produce 6mm plastic and metal armies that would make good proxies for epic - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies

Onslaught minis have great expanding ranges that could be proxies for epic - http://www.onslaughtmini.com/ Exodus Wars also - http://www.exoduswars.com/

Someone from the forum has developed Tabletop, it's in the early stages at the moment, but provides everything players need to play a game - table, models, dice, ranges, ect but online. I'm in Australia and I have a game of Epic Armageddon going on against someone in the US.

There's a yearly Epic painting competition - see here for last year's entries. Some nice models in there.

Cybershadow has the site be open to many games but 80-80% of the discussion and post are Epic related.

Why did you give up on Epic exactly? You were right on it not selling that well (though it initially did a lot better than they estimated) but that doesn't make any difference to how good a game it is. Epic is the only game I play these days, having sold off my other models years ago.
Author:  KTG17 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Dave wrote:
They're definitely gone for good. There's rumors about that the culling has something to do with some impending sale of the company.


Pending sale of the company?!?! I thought it was a publicly traded company.
Author:  primarch [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
KTG17 wrote:
Hey guys, its been a really long time and I am sure only a few remember me. I used to go by Gandalf the Grey here (I still see a few posts from me, but I have long forgotten the email and password behind the account). I used to go by Knowlton on the old Epic Armageddon development forums. Ha! i just remembered I used to argue with that Pixelgeek guy all the time.

I had dropped out of gaming, sold most of what I had except for some core favorites (dont worry, it includes some of my Epic stuff although I did sell some of it :( ).

Anyway, after zero interest in 40k for the last 2-3 versions, Dark Vengeance got my curiosity and my girlfriend recently bought me the limited edition box set off Amazon and wow. I havent been so impressed with a GW game in quite some time. So anyway I started checking around my old gaming stomping grounds to see what I had been missing the last few years and see that GW seems to have let Epic whither on the wine... there is barely anything for sale on the GW site. Sucks. Well, if any of you remember, it wasnt too far into EpicA development did I start vocalizing how I didnt think it would be really successful anyway. Blame GW, Jervis, whoever, it just didnt bring in the $$$ enough to keep it in their strategic plans. Maybe some day we'll get Epic one of those yearly mystery boxes like they did with Space Hulk.

So what have you guys been up to? I see there is a TON of forum sections for games I have never heard of. Kind of afraid to go exploring around.... lol


Hi!

Gandalf! I asked who you were on your other post, but I do indeed remeber Gandalf the Grey! How you been? ;D

Others have brought you up to speed already. There are LOTS of 6mm miniatures lines now, done by no less than people from these forums. Good stuff!! look into them. You can proxy a lot of stuff from their lines. :)

As for net epic, remeber all that talk about a fully illustrated net epic rulebook? We finally did that!

Its called net epic gold. You can get them here:

http://www.netepic.org/netepic.html

The Epicentre STILL endures and thrives!

http://www.netepic.org/space-marine.html

We're doing another (although smaller) revision right now on these forums in the net epic sections. Any input is welcome! :)

Glad to have you back!

Primarch
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Yeah ! What the boyz here have said, new companies producing great 6mm sci-fi minis, new rule sets, etc., etc. ... We have evolved ! :spin "We don't need no stink'n GW !!!" >:D "Death to the oppressors!" :gah ;D "LIBERATION !!!!!!!"
Author:  primarch [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Legion 4 wrote:
Yeah ! What the boyz here have said, new companies producing great 6mm sci-fi minis, new rule sets, etc., etc. ... We have evolved ! :spin "We don't need no stink'n GW !!!" >:D "Death to the oppressors!" :gah ;D "LIBERATION !!!!!!!"


Hi!

Damn straight!

I'm enjoying the hobby more since GW's departure from it than I have in a long time. ;D

Primarch
Author:  KTG17 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
GlynG wrote:
Hey there, I vaguely recognise your old username from old threads.


Hey GlynG yeah you sound familiar too.

Quote:
You've missed quite a lot and things have waxed and waned but Epic Armageddon is still going strong. I'll give you an eclectic catch-up on what you've missed. The community has well and truly taken over developing Epic and the 2013 Tournament Pack was released recently and the 2012 Compendium includes a wide range of developed armies, some of which may be less tested.

A large group of tournament players went their own separate way and produced their own version of army lists on their site, mostly based on the Net-EA ones but with some things tweaked and some all new lists. I'm not sure if you're in the UK or not, but there's roughly 10 or so Epic Armageddon tournaments run by them in the UK every year.

There was a golden age of fan made Epic models, using CAD and matter printing which produced much higher quality models than the GW ones, but a cease and desist but a stop to that.

Evil and Chaos from the forums ran a successful (over 5 times the amount asked for) Indiegogo fundraising campaign to produce 6mm plastic and metal armies that would make good proxies for epic - http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/6mm-scale-armies

Onslaught minis have great expanding ranges that could be proxies for epic - http://www.onslaughtmini.com/ Exodus Wars also - http://www.exoduswars.com/

Someone from the forum has developed Tabletop, it's in the early stages at the moment, but provides everything players need to play a game - table, models, dice, ranges, ect but online. I'm in Australia and I have a game of Epic Armageddon going on against someone in the US.

There's a yearly Epic painting competition - see here for last year's entries. Some nice models in there.

Cybershadow has the site be open to many games but 80-80% of the discussion and post are Epic related.


Wow quite a lot to catch up on... will check it all out.

Quote:
Why did you give up on Epic exactly? You were right on it not selling that well (though it initially did a lot better than they estimated) but that doesn't make any difference to how good a game it is. Epic is the only game I play these days, having sold off my other models years ago.


Give up on Epic? Hmm. . . well, it kind of had to do with gaming in general I guess. I grew out of it and took up other interests. I used to have a huge collection of games, but my favorite ones really were no longer supported and hard to find players for. I started selling off the least favorite ones, and before long my collection just contained my absolute favorites, to be tucked away in the closet. I was so excited when jervis started the playtesters forum, I couldnt believe I could just email the guy responsible for hours and hours of the time I spent playing the games he created. I couldnt believe I was going to be able to influence the game that got me into gaming (Adpetus Titanicus/Space Marine was my first table-top wargame), but when I could see it wasnt going to be what I hoped, it was kind of the nail in my gaming coffin.

Part of the problem was the lack of resources Jervis had with Specialist Games. I wasnt sitting in his seat, and didnt have to deal with budgets and so forth, but he just seemed too ambitious and all over the place and I think he should have been a lot more conservative. By this I mean, rather than spending limited resources on new Space Marine and Ork infantry sprues, just use the existing brilliant ones from Epic 40k. Those sprues really didnt work with the army formations? Well then change the army formations. What do you mean I have to buy metal Terminators now? How many of those could they have sold anyway? Eventually when the resources got cut further he had to resort to re-using the Chaos and Eldar sprues anyway. Which was fine. They are excellent sprues. And backed up my point.

Everyone was excited about new miniatures, but I didnt think many of the new ones were good enough to use limited resources on, meaning someone had to be paid to sculpt them, and energy into producing them. Junka Trucks? Anything from the Baran Seige Masters? Not to say these were all terrible, but honestly the Epic 40k miniatures were awesome and existing armies should have been built around existing models, this way more could be 'reproduced' quicker for players waiting for their armies. I really wasnt happy with recycling Armageddon again, which I see GW is doing again in 2014, and to me, it left out some important armies. After the first rulebook went out, what comes in the next supplement? Essentially more Orks and Imperial Guard. Tyranids? Chaos? Titans? These were all there. How about spending time on new TAU and NECRON miniatures. It pissed me off, and I lost interest in waiting.

And Titans... I screamed on that playtestor forum to give more emphasis on titans. I would have rather had seen a re-tooled plastic Warlord titan than a re-tooled Space Marine sprue. Plastic gargant versus re-tooled ork sprue and things like Ork Landas and metal characters. To me at least, what made Epic so epic was the mix of these massive warmachines supplemented with infantry and tanks. Now most games might see a single titan, if any at all, and to me, it just wasnt Epic anymore, just another miniature wargame. And what does Jervis do? Develops the Epic air combat game no one needed. :/ I dont know if Titans could have save Epic A, but I know the air combat game didnt help. Just a lost in focus to me.

So with that, I realized than Epic A was mostly going to be a hobby for myself, and not one I could just walk into a brick and mortar store and find a bunch of people playing like I see with 40k or Warhammer. Browse through Epic miniatures when I had money burning a hole in my pocket. I would have to privide all the minis to a curious player in hopes he would get into it enought to buy his own. I already had that with AT/SM1, SM2/TL, and Epic 40k. It didnt really have to do with the rules, cause I will be honest, there are things I like and dont like about all three of the previous ones. Heck, the least favorite of mine is the one that was hands down the most successful: SM2/TL. So no matter how great the rules are, there needs to be more to it, from its presentation, artwork, fluff, atmosphere, etc. And while Epic A sucked in the hardcore Epic fans, it didnt even really raise much of the attention of regular 40k players, and to me, it really had to. That is what it did before.

Really sucks how things turned out. I really hope one day, maybe one of the year mystery games will be Epic in some form. I mean they redid Space Hulk, Man O' War inspired Dreadfleet, and I hear Inquisitor has inspired this year's game. GW only has so many it can go thru before they eventually hit the idea of Epic again, even if in 10 years from now, and when they do, I put my money on it being more like Adeptus Titanicus than Epic A. It wont have the support or range it did in previous years, but I bet it would get more attention than Epic A did.

New box set with 6-8 titans? Yeah sign me up.
Author:  KTG17 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
primarch wrote:
Gandalf! I asked who you were on your other post, but I do indeed remeber Gandalf the Grey! How you been? ;D

As for net epic, remeber all that talk about a fully illustrated net epic rulebook? We finally did that!

Its called net epic gold. You can get them here:

http://www.netepic.org/netepic.html


Hey Primarch! Yes I flipped through it. Very impressive work.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
primarch wrote:
Legion 4 wrote:
Yeah ! What the boyz here have said, new companies producing great 6mm sci-fi minis, new rule sets, etc., etc. ... We have evolved ! :spin "We don't need no stink'n GW !!!" >:D "Death to the oppressors!" :gah ;D "LIBERATION !!!!!!!"


Hi!

Damn straight!

I'm enjoying the hobby more since GW's departure from it than I have in a long time. ;D

Primarch

LONG LIVE THE FREE PEOPLES OF TACTICAL COMMAND !!!!!!! DEATH TO ALL TYRANTS !!!! "DON'T TREAD ON ME " !!!!!! :P 8) :whistle
Author:  Todderman [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
GlynG wrote:

There was a golden age of fan made Epic models, using CAD and matter printing which produced much higher quality models than the GW ones, but a cease and desist but a stop to that.




Your sweet words turn to bitter orange wax in my ears.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What the heck is going on
Hey, I remember Gandalf from the old forums. Hello. :-)
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