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Flames of War

 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 3:33 am 
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Hello all,

I have been told that this game is great, and after a quick (half an hour) read of a friend's rulebook it looks certainly promising!

Flames of War (FOW) is one among the zilions of miniature games that depict the WWII confrontation. Still, it seems it is a good one.  The battles tend to be at company level at most (4-8 platoons of around 3 squads/tanks).

Website is www.flamesofwar.com

I was wondering if any of our resident WWII experts have tried it.

Regards,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:51 am 
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I am sure that primarch and Tuff will reply soon. Tuff is a fairly new player to the game, and seems to like it. It is one of the most popular WWII games around, and is done 'GW style'. I have heard good things about it.

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:38 pm 
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Hi!

FOW, mostly used with15mm, which offers a wide variety of manufacturers to choose minis from. So while the FOW people sell their  own (more expensive) minis, you can easiy buy from other companies that make very good minis too.

The rules are simple and straight foward and offer a fun game. It is NOT a simulation. If you want realism of what WWII combat is, this isnt the game. This game stressed the "game" and "fun" aspect. No that this is bad (I find it quite good actually), but you must gauge your expectation).

They use a "GW-ish" style of presentation and marketing. This means "codexes" for different armies and theaters. The presentation is clean, professional and most definitely alluring. Note they have so far avoided the most negative aspects of GW's style of cut throat marketing, but the similarites does bug some people.

I have lurked on their official forums and they seem most helpful and supported. Their distribution is experiencing growing pains, but they are steadily gaining much popularity (overshadwoing GW is several regions).

If it were 6mm I'd had jumped in long ago.

All in all its a good game and company, worthy of your support.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:37 pm 
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Hmmm... I must admit that I'm seriously tempted to try it out. The Minis are gorgeous (and seeing Tuffskulls Russians is a great inspiration too) and the rules look nice. Also I think most 6mm terrain could probably be used (though probably not buildings  :(  )

Cheers! :)

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:27 pm 
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Hi Primarch,

You can play FOW with 6mm minis. It even says so in the rules.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm 
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Hi!

True Maksim, but I dont like rules that are created for one scale and then have other scales "tacked on".  They just dont "feel" the same. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:12 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 10 2005 April,18:38)
Hi!

FOW, mostly used with15mm, which offers a wide variety of manufacturers to choose minis from. So while the FOW people sell their  own (more expensive) minis, you can easiy buy from other companies that make very good minis too.

The rules are simple and straight foward and offer a fun game. It is NOT a simulation. If you want realism of what WWII combat is, this isnt the game. This game stressed the "game" and "fun" aspect. No that this is bad (I find it quite good actually), but you must gauge your expectation).

They use a "GW-ish" style of presentation and marketing. This means "codexes" for different armies and theaters. The presentation is clean, professional and most definitely alluring. Note they have so far avoided the most negative aspects of GW's style of cut throat marketing, but the similarites does bug some people.

I have lurked on their official forums and they seem most helpful and supported. Their distribution is experiencing growing pains, but they are steadily gaining much popularity (overshadwoing GW is several regions).

If it were 6mm I'd had jumped in long ago.

All in all its a good game and company, worthy of your support.

Primarch

Ok, heard :)

Now, on the barrage of questions:

1) have you tested it? I know it is mostly 40k/GW-style since some of the designers are ex-GW staff. What is that makes you say it is not realistic? The size of a 1500-2k battle? how certain weapons operate? The turn based sequence?....

2) Any examples of those other WWII miniature manufacvtures that you would recommend?

3) You can still make it 6mm; simply play larger battles and keep the size of the bases the same size. After all, like Epic or 40k it is a game of tokens (the bases). The miniatures are mostly only a fancy-looking add on to the rules, that are based on... bases :)

Regards,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:18 pm 
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Quote (Xavi @ 11 2005 April,11:12)
Ok, heard :)

Now, on the barrage of questions:

1) have you tested it? I know it is mostly 40k/GW-style since some of the designers are ex-GW staff. What is that makes you say it is not realistic? The size of a 1500-2k battle? how certain weapons operate? The turn based sequence?....

2) Any examples of those other WWII miniature manufacvtures that you would recommend?

3) You can still make it 6mm; simply play larger battles and keep the size of the bases the same size. After all, like Epic or 40k it is a game of tokens (the bases). The miniatures are mostly only a fancy-looking add on to the rules, that are based on... bases :)

Regards,

Xavi

Hi!

My experience so far is purely from reading the rules. I have not the oppotunity to play yet. ?:(

The comments stem from the fact that, dont look for very detailed, gritty mechanics trying to simulate every aspect of battle at this scale. The stat line and mechanics are simple (GW-simple), but I would not say "simplistic' or putting it more bluntly, stupid. They arent. The emphasis is on an entertaining, quick paced game. Some units dont act very historically accurate (some of the English guns seem underpowered), but the "feel" is good. Again, if your looking for a simulation or accurate depiction of WWII combat, this isnt the game for you. But if you want a good excuse for playing a fun game that happens to use historical figs this game is quite good. I beleive that there lies this games increasing popularity. You dont NEED a game to be realistic for it to be fun or popular.

Other companies that sell 15mm WWI is Old glory, who happens to be ahving a sale of their "command desicion" line of 15mm figs at 40% off!!!!

Peter Pig, Quality Casting are another two companies of note. There are more, but those are the ones off the top of my head. The minis Battlefront are good, but since they are using the GW style packaging and sales pitch they are notably pricier than the other companies. Quality wise they "amy" be subjectively better, but like I said, its SUBJECTIVE... ?:;):

I know you could easily transfer most rules like this to a 6mm format. But in y experience a game made specifically for 6mm usually gets the right feel than one that was made predominately for a different scale. Just my own subjective appreciation.... ?:;):

Primarch

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:50 am 
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Quote (Xavi @ 12 2005 April,01:12)
3) You can still make it 6mm; simply play larger battles and keep the size of the bases the same size. After all, like Epic or 40k it is a game of tokens (the bases). The miniatures are mostly only a fancy-looking add on to the rules, that are based on... bases :)

Alternatively, play the same points, but scale it down.

Coincidentally, 15mm is 2.5 times the size of 6mm, so to scale down, convert the numbers from inches to cm.

(For instance, close range is 16". Changing it to 16cm makes it 6mm scale)


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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:22 am 
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Re: Scale: Serps beat me to what I was going to say.  :)

It should be mentioned that the TO&Es look very accurate.

The game mechanics are IGO-UGO but the use of opportunity fire helps.

As for the realism aspect, you should look at the game as a whole and the results produced using the system. The question is: can you succeed using real world tactics: combined arms, fire support, suppressing & such? If you can, then individual mechanics do not matter that much. If you can't, OTOH, it doesn't matter how detailed the mechanics are.

True, it is not a simulation. But IMO it does a reasonable job. Although I do have a problem with the special characters found in the armylists. Then again, nobody forces you to use them.

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:25 am 
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Nobody I know allows special characters, especially after someone noticed there's a character in Stars & Stripes that pwns all.


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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 am 
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Surprise... The one concern I have is that there has been a noticeable and ever-increasing movement towards the dreaded "Codex Creep" syndrome with the new FOW supplements. IMO the special abilities, while originally good, are getting out of hand.

Just M(NS)HO, of course.  }:)  :-:

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:23 pm 
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For what I have seen in 2 of the "codex" books, such "special rules" are not such a thing: they use the codexes to introduce new GENERAL rules. For example, the recon rules in the old ironsides (armoured yankies) book apply to ALL recon rules in the game.

Most units have special rules that are not such a thing as well. Most infantry has one of the following ruiles:
- Fleet of foot
- reroll failed assault dice when attacking
- reroll failed assault/morale dice when defending

What happens is that they get different names for the different armies. For the first (fleet of foot) the germans get the "stromtrooper" rules while the italians get the "avanti!" rule. In practical terms it is exactly the same, though.

However, I have not analyzed the rules in depth in any case, so I might have missed some of such cases that you (Mojarn) are thinking about. But if those rules is what you were refering to, think more along the lines of "well, all units get a special rule of some case among a common pool of 5-7 special abilities".

And now on topic again, I think I will try it going for the krauts. I like tanks, oh yes :p :cool: so I am going for a panzer company. It is awfully small in any case, so I will be beaten to dust repeatedly, I guess. But OTOH it shopuld be easy to collect and paint and then the tanks can be used in E:A as superheavies! :D Gonna love the long PzIV G "Shadowsword" :p

Health and sixes,

Xavi

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 Post subject: Flames of War
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:30 pm 
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Ok, I checked the companies that primarch suggested.

The problem is that their galleries and pics of unpainted stuff are quite limited. A lot of the stuff has no pics at all, so I do not know if they are any good.

The Peter Pig models that I could see seem great, but the Command Decision miniatures have no pics online, for example, so I am unsure if I want to spend any money on them, even if it is with a 40% discount! ???

Does anyone know where I can find pics for the minis? I would like to check them before spending any cash on them...

CHeers,

Xavi

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