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40k 2nd edition
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1806
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Author:  Gandalf the Grey [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Hey guys, what's up?

A couple of days ago I was browsing on Ebay and stumbled upon an auction for 40k 2nd edition still sealed. I have been kind of wishing I could go through the box again for memories sake, and since I already have everything :L , I guess it has been creeping up on my list of things to 're-acquire'.

I actually had a TON of 40k stuff and sold it all to a gaming store that eventually went out of business. Ha. I thought I was getting out of gaming COMPLETELY until I saw an auction too good to pass up on Ebay a few years ago, and it started my Epic craze all over again.

Anyway, some friends wanted to try out 40k, so we picked up two 40k 3rd edition box sets and other stuff, and I HATED it. I understand what the game was designed to do (play larger games quicker), but for some reason I felt it lacked strategy, depth, and whatever else because in the three years of playing it, I can honestly admit that I have rarely enjoyed it. Can't put an exact finger on it.

Anyway, I have other GW games from the 2nd edition time period, and they are some of my favorite games: Man O' War, Necromunda, Warhammer Quest, and of course Epic Space Marine and Titan Legions. I thought 40k 2nd edition was kind of silly by the time I was done with it, as it looked too cartoonish for a wargame. However, after giving up on following all the different books and articles from Rogue Trader, I was SOOOOOO thrilled to get the chance to start all over from scratch with the 2nd edition box set. I can't say that I like everything about 2nd edition, I know it has some faults, and lord knows the new minis are amazing, but there is just something about 2nd edition that the other games have from that time period, and I don't quite know what that is either.

Anyway, the starting price was $10 and I emailed the guy to find out if he would end the auction early, and he put the Buy-it Now option up, so I snagged it. $80. Nuts I know. Hell, I can write it off as a bad poker night. Anyway, I went flipping through some old White Dwarfs (you know, the ones that had 40k, Fantasy, Necromunda, WQ, Space Marine, bla bla in each issue - THOSE WERE THE DAYS!), and I forgot how much fun 40k ed was back then. Even randomly chosing your mission card was fun for me. And I LOVED wargear and magic cards.

Lots of counters, cards, junk to keep track of, but I felt like I got a world of stuff when I first got that set, versus what came in the 40k 3rd edition. Yes, better minis the 3rd time around, but still.

Anyway, I miss what characters meant to the game back then (I know they were overpowering), but I liked that. It was a skirmish game, not an army game, and I hate big games today. My days of trying to field 2,000 points of minis is long gone. 500 points in 40k 3rd is boring. 500 points in 2nd was actually interesting.

I don't know what I will do with the set once I pick up Dark Millenium too ?:;): (got to have all that too). I still have many of my old 2nd edition Marines.

I know I'll never play the game like I used to. Actually, I'll be lucky if I play it any more than a couple of times. It does have a certain feel to it though, that Necromunda, Man O' War, and Warhammer Quest had in that they seem to emphasize fun, versus seriousness in the newer games, which I guess I am over. I miss the comedy, randomness, and I guess the novelty found in the older games that the new ones seem to lack.

I almost picked up Confrontation: Hybrid or Warmachine, mainly because it looked like I wouldn't need a lot of minis to play a game, but I think this will make my last 'game' purchase. I have zero interest in 40k 4th, and think GW is going downhill. As far as I am concerned, GW's golden days were in the mid-90s. Too bad, because I really enjoyed the games they put out then.

Any fond memories of 2nd edition? It seems to get as much slack as 3rd does, so I guess you can't make everyone happy.

Author:  netepic [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

40k 2nd Ed was very good in it's time - suffered a bit from codex escalation in the end, and for best results you had to ban special characters... but then that is the same with most GW games.

Now days we play a lot of VOID which is very simular to 40k 2nd Ed, in fact there is a V40k group that has converted across several of the lists, both myself and Jyrki have contributed to this.

There is a fair amount of debate on the marine list at the moment. In V40k the current list is heavily based on the fluff so marines tend to be heavily outnumbered, but rather elite.

The Ork list plays well, the amount of fire you get from Gretchin mobs is just horrific but they die quick, especially to flame throwers. Goffs are as scary in close combat as you would expect.

The IG list is cool, but unfortunately needs trimming - it included the veteran, but the problem with this is the army was easy to make the army too elite, when it should be fairly simular to the other human factions armies in skill levels - particularly the Viridians.

I haven't had a chance to play with Jyrki's Squat list, but there are some fantastic ideas in there, I particular liked the slayer - they have different weapon fits depending on the foe they have vowed to die fighting :). Plus as roaming individuals they kinda rock.

Author:  Pariah Press [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

I was mostly playing Space Marine 2nd edition and Man O' War when I bought 40K 2ed.  It didn't impress me, really.  I bought a pile of space marines and played it a couple of times, but it didn't seem interesting to me.  I think it was a scale thing.  I really liked the grand scale that Epic and Man O' War operate on.  
 I have to disagree with you on GW's current status.  Things have changed, of course, but some of the newer games are still fun.  The newer games are much more focussed on the game board than the various counters and other do-dads.  Keeping track of all of those templates for Man O' War took up half the table!  Anyway, I've been playing Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Mordheim lately.  Mordheim has been great.  I've had a blast convertnig miniatures to match the weapons I "bought" for my warband, and replacing an amputee's arn with an empty, folded-up sleeve.  I've heard a lot of good things about Warmaster, too, though I don't have the funds to dip into something new at this juncture.  The whole "Specialist Games" range seems like a deliberate attempt to appeal to gamers of our  generation (I assume you were born in the '70's somewhere.).  The self-contained rulebooks make the games easier to transport, and leave more time to focus on scenery and miniatures.  
 That said, I still intend to have a lot of fun gloating over my plasma counters on my Imperator Titan Data Card next week when I play NetEpic again.

Author:  netepic [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Warmaster and Mordheim are fantastic games - love them to bits.

WFB is better than it was, but still leaves a bit to be desired. Gets better with a few house rules tho - we reintroduced pushback from WFB 3rd Ed.

Author:  the_fifth_horseman [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

The 4th edition adds some more depth and dynamism to the game, IMHO.
The trial version of the rules update is for download on GW site.

Author:  netepic [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

You mean it is no longer everyone pull there swords, jump into Rhinos and then leap into close combat? With the war cry

"Fire support and suppression are for wusses!"

Author:  netepic [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Oops, forgot tactic B:

Sit on a hill, bereft of cover knowing that cover couldn't improve your armour any further :angry:

Author:  Legion 4 [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

All iterations of 40K rules sucked ... just some more than others !  Just my  opinion ! :p

Author:  netepic [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

I still say that VOID is cool ;). Although having genetically engineered troops that can dodge matrix style may not be everyones cup of tea!

Author:  Pariah Press [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 7:45 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Quote (netepic @ 14 2004 July,10:06)
40k 2nd Ed was very good in it's time - suffered a bit from codex escalation in the end, and for best results you had to ban special characters... but then that is the same with most GW games.

How would you say 40K 2ed compares to Mordheim, at least as far as the battles themselves go? ?Obviously Mordheim has a built-in campaign structure that 40k lacks. ?
?All this talk, combined with a recent promise to one of my gaming buddies that I would paint my old Dreadnought, is making me think about giving 40k another try. ?I also have the old Marneus Calgar (the one where he's sitting on the throne), so I guess Ultramarines are mandated.

Author:  netepic [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

I would try Necro - better rules for campaign play and excellent detailed rules. It is to 40k what Mordheim is for WFB. In short, an excellent set of skirmish rules.

Whilst it is set up for gang warfare, I am sure there are mods out there for standard 40k play.

Indeed it might be worth just porting the rules across... after all they are so closely based on each other...

@Stormseer - I think this is a Q you old chum, you are our resident Necro expert.

Author:  stormseer [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Yes yes... have a few games of Necromunda- you'll soon be addicted like me!

-The 40k SE rules are very similar to Necromunda (seeing as Necro was based on it, that isn't surprising)...
-You can just port rules for indivdual minis across- however; in Necromunda all the skills and bonuses gangers pick up can give them a distict advantage compared to 'normal' 40k troops- a couple of juves could just about manage to take down a Marine, if they had power swords and decent WS....  :D  Check out the SG Necro forum- there are occasional threads about using 40k stuff and this kind of thing.
-I recomend you buy the rulebook (or download it- it should be online very soon), and a boxed gang- it will only cost you ?20 or so... If you can get a few friends involved, go for it, have a few games and see how you like it!

Author:  netepic [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

What have I started.... :|

Author:  CyberShadow [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

For me, Rogue Trader first edition is the only 40K game! Fantastic.

I have been looking at Necro for the last week or so as well. I would really like a game that is easy to start up and doesnt require much money, but could be played regularly and where I could see my guys evolve. If I could guarantee a regular opponent, I would probably play Necro a lot!  :(

Author:  the_fifth_horseman [ Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  40k 2nd edition

Well, Tom, it is true - Rhino Rush is no more!

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