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English Civil War...
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Author:  vanvlak [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi all,

I've developed an unexpected interest in the English Civil War, and having an Imperial army, luckily unpainted, have realised that a Civil War army of sorts ?- or two (Royalist and Parliamentarian) - can be cobbled together from Dogs of War pikemen, cannon, Imperial troops, Handgunners and Pistoliers.

Does anyone know of a good set of historical rules which include ECW stuff?

Thanks!

P.S.  
I have never played historical games, so I have no idea of the basic concepts; I could of course use Warhammer rules ignoring magic etc., but I feel like trying something else.

Incidentally, does WH Ancients cover the ECW? ???
- Replying to self - yes it does! has anyone tried WH Ancients, and is it based on WH without magic etc.?
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi Vanvalk,

Check out the site called "6mm_minis" in my signature. There is a whole folder full of ECW links there, both manufacturers, rules and resources.

After "6mm_minis," check out the Baccus site (link at "6mm_minis").

WH Ancients is an OK system for historicals, but it's too much a historical clone of WH-40k and WHFB. I'd try something new if I were you.

The DBA / DBM /DB-? series is pretty good and very popular due to its' simplicity.

While you can play ECW with 28mm figures, I like it better with 6mm scale figures.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  primarch [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi!

Maksim beat me to it, but yes, the links resource will get you what you need!

Primarch
Author:  vanvlak [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi Maksim and Primarch - thanks a million!

I'm lost in a whirl of ECW and DBM and 6mm links!

Fun! :D :D :D
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi Vanvlak,

Please don't hesitate to add any links to the "6mm_minis" ECW folders! :D

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Jimbo [ Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Quote (vanvlak @ 11 2004 July,10:35)
has anyone tried WH Ancients, and is it based on WH without magic etc.?

Yes

It is similar to WH 3rd edition, but as all editions are similar you should pick it up pretty easily.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
It all depends on what scale of game you want. Also, are the figures based already, as this may affect your choice.

WAB is basically WHFB without magic, and yes it covers most periods in typical GW style.

Other rules sets are:

Warrior - quite in depth and complex
Armati - seems a good game, and is well respected. Second edition is recently released as well
Vis Bellica - my game of choice, but it has a 'unique' basing system which is different from other games

Games that I am less familiar with:

DBx - the whole series of DBM, DBA, etc. A tournament standard which is nice and fast to play, but sacrifices details for it
Piquet - uses a card system to keep the fog of war going. A very interesting rules set, but this can lead to 'realistic' one sided games as the card that you need for your force to move refuses to come up
Hack - a whole series of games which I know almost nothing about

There are many more, and as Maksim says the list on the 6mm Group is second to none. Pretty much any Ancient/Medieval game will cover the English Civil War period.

Good luck, and let us know what you settle on.
Author:  penal battalion [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:50 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
The warmaster figs are exccelent for doing the Boarder Reavers and the whole of the 16th cent'
Cheers.
Author:  vanvlak [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:18 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Wow - thanks all, very helpful!
CS, the models are not based yes - but although I started out with the WH figures idea to save $ (as I have loads of Empire and Dogs of War stuff) I'm being sorely tempted (no thanks to Maksim:p ) by more historically accurate 6mm models. Very sorely tempted.....
Incidentally, would the Warmaster 10mm figures be compatible with 6mm rules, i.e. would the size difference be just a question of taste or would it damage the works? I suppose that basing would be a major consideration.
Author:  penal battalion [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Often a matter of taste on the scale issue. Also most rules for 15/25mm work very well with 10mm. Cheaper and looks nicer on the field.And Citadel minitures may be expensive but the 10mm have better detail than a lot of 25mm historical minis.
       I often use a varient on Hordes of The THings and DBM.
This means that you get to do historical and then go mad and do fantasy without all the zap bang magic.
I have had great fun with Romans taking on a fantasy celtic army compleate with witches and druids.
Have fun with the new project.
Cheers.
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
I recommend the DBx family of games... the DBM and DBR are more complicated than epic, DBA is a simplified version.

DBR is Renaissance including ECW.

I believe WHAB has an English civil pack which is complete with rules and army lists and is supposed to be pretty good.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Quote (vanvlak @ 13 2004 July,08:18)
Wow - thanks all, very helpful!
CS, the models are not based yes - but although I started out with the WH figures idea to save $ (as I have loads of Empire and Dogs of War stuff) I'm being sorely tempted (no thanks to Maksim:p ) by more historically accurate 6mm models. Very sorely tempted.....
Incidentally, would the Warmaster 10mm figures be compatible with 6mm rules, i.e. would the size difference be just a question of taste or would it damage the works? I suppose that basing would be a major consideration.

I have discovered that, in the world of ancient gaming, there are two variables. The first is the size of the base, and the width of the base is much more important than the depth of the base here. The second is the order of the troops, which is usually represented by the number of figures on a base. Therefore, the 'standard' for close order medium infantry at 25mm is a base 60mm by 40mm, with four figures on it. This is the normal. However, I play 15mm figures, with the rules for 25mm figures. As long as I can remember what the troops actually are (ie, there should be four 25mm figures there, but I represent it as 9 15mm figures - I find that it looks better, and that my favourite game has an obscure basing standard), then there is no problem. At the end of the day, gaming outside of GW is a very relaxed pastime, and as long as both sides are fairly similar, there should be little trouble with any formation.

Of course, you could just download the Warmaster Ancient rules from the web if you already have the Warmaster rules...
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Basing standards for ancients and historicals are CRAZY! :laugh:

I wish they could standardize!

Or follow E-A precedenct and allow everything within stated limits! THANK YOU, JERVIS! :D

Shalom,

Maksim-Smelchak.
Author:  Markconz [ Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 13 2004 July,23:21)
Basing standards for ancients and historicals are CRAZY! :laugh:

I wish they could standardize!

Or follow E-A precedenct and allow everything within stated limits! THANK YOU, JERVIS! :D

Shalom,

Maksim-Smelchak.

I think non-standardised basing is a lot easier to implement in modern/sci-fi games where formations tend to be spread out and irregular.  In ancients and renaissance with close order formations in close combat, things do need to be a bit more standardised otherwise you get weird matchups in numbers of troops facing each other.  

DBx basing is 60m across for all 25 mm elements (and varying depth depending on type).  This means you can put 3 Warhammer figures on a base, (2 if skirmishers), and 2-3 cavalry, which works out pretty well.  Some people here have armies which work in both systems, using magnetic strip etc.
Author:  vanvlak [ Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  English Civil War...
Hi all,
after some deliberation and action:
1 - I think I'll get the DBx rules - they seem to be quite cheap - so thanks for pointing me there
2 - Warmaster is in my opinion GW's best game (although I think my favourite is Man O' War): so, CS, any idea where the Warmaster historical rules are - I couldn't find them :(
3 - Being a slave to GW, I did buy the Warhammer Ancients English Civil War book, and was pleasantly surprised: the book includes full rules for a 17th century wargame, based om Warhammer, with Parliament (including a New Model Army variant), Royalist, Covenant and Montrose's force lists. But the best surprise was that although the WHFB system is used, this is not just WHFB without magic. For example, you can get raw, steady, veteran and elite troops of several unit types; cannon may cause fear (and mortars terror) when shooting on new troops; the first shot from a musketeer unit has a better chance of hitting (more time to load properly); powder weapons have limited powder (4 shots per game); psychology includes rash troops and rabble, and the latter fear cavalry charges!; cavalry can be trotters or gallopers (who counter charge when charged), and you get a fire and flee charge reaction; and you can even choose to disengage from combat. Finally, you get entertaining types such as Scots ministers, Parliamentarian agitators (One King! King Jesus!), and Royalist Buffoons! You get sakers and falconets and frame guns and petards and grenadoes...wheee!
Ok, it's the only WHAncients product I have - but I can only highly recommend it!
incidentally, it's aimed at 20-28mm models; and recommends other models than GW products - refreshing! Try to find Perry models' website - the Perry Twins' independent products are terrific!
Cheers all.
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