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"Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1736		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:39 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
I just checked my Yahoo account this weekend.  I forgot the board was set up to go there.  I wasn't ignoring you.

Hit me at neal.e.hunt@teamstatestreet.com if you still want to chat about that stuff.
Author:  Gandalf the Grey [ Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Chat about what? I forgot what I was talking to you about. . . LOL. ?:D
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Um... the recent flare-up on the playtest board was the kind of thing we were talking about.

No one could mistake that PG and I bump heads. ?There's no love lost, and I don't care for the way he posts, much less moderates. ?I do think you went a bit far, though.

Anyway, I've been increasingly disenchanted with the playtest forum recently. ?There seems to be a lot of factional squabbling as people jockey to complain that their favorite army is the one getting hosed and there seems to be a very confrontational tone.

So, I guess this is the thread to...

:angry: UNLEASH THE BITCHING FURY!!! :angry: ?


:o ...at least with respect to the official playtest forum.
Author:  primarch [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Hi!

I don't post there, but do read it and it seems things are getting quite "hostile" lately and it seems its ticking off the wrong people. I can't speak for most on that forum, but people like yourself (Nealhunt) and Maksim seem to be pretty clear of thought and purpose regardling how epicA should evolve, but are drowned out by more vocal (antagonistic) people.

Regardless on how I personally feel about the game, I'm sorry to see you guys get disenchanted about it. To tell you the truth I was counting on reasonable people like yourselves to perhaps steer that project in the right direction.

Oh well, at least you're here and I least I value your opinions.

Primarch
Author:  MaksimSmelchak [ Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
I don't post there, but do read it and it seems things are getting quite "hostile" lately and it seems its ticking off the wrong people. I can't speak for most on that forum, but people like yourself (Nealhunt) and Maksim seem to be pretty clear of thought and purpose regardling how epicA should evolve, but are drowned out by more vocal (antagonistic) people.


That's why I rarely go to the E-A Playtest boards anymore even though at one time I was very enthusiastic about them. Too many of the threads sound like a highschool classroom to me.

I have some very good ideas how to make E-A a great game, but I can't keep up with anyone who posts more than Jervis.

The funny thing is that so many of the ideas that I posted in the first few months of the board are now resurfacing after being ignored when I put them out the first time. I probably won't get any credit for them either and the last person to suggest them will be regarded as a genius!

It sounds too much like the UN to me!

Regardless on how I personally feel about the game, I'm sorry to see you guys get disenchanted about it. To tell you the truth I was counting on reasonable people like yourselves to perhaps steer that project in the right direction.

Sorry. I burned out on the forums and no longer have much patience for them. I did, however, make two whole posts today on them! ?:p

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

P.S.
I do see some sort of evil triangle (maybe it's bigger... a hexagon?) between PG, Neal, and Gandalf. It's too bad that they have friction too, because they're all good people.

P.S.S.
5th-Horseman is a good guy too, but he gets REALLY excited sometimes about his playtest lists!
Author:  dafrca [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Interesting that all of you are talking about this. I have started to lose interest in the E-A Playtest Forum as well.

When I first logged on the feeling was one of cooperation and exploration. In the last few months it seems it is more about how to find offense and recycle old hurts.

I am still going on, but I am headed to where you guys are now.

In fact that is why I have started to post more here because I do not feel the same here as how Neal put it, "factional squabbling as people jockey to complain that their favorite army is the one getting hosed and there seems to be a very confrontational tone."

Here I feel the level is much more calm and mature here.
Well, as mature as a buch of grown men playing with toys can be! :laugh:

Dafrca
Author:  primarch [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Hi!

I think that the Epic-A Playtest Forums could learn a lot from how we do things on the NetEpic list. We have been around for 6 years and have had something like 2 or maybe 3 things that can qualify as flamewars (and mild ones compared to the norm on the net) in that entire time. How do we do it?

Well, I realize that Jervis is a busy man, but not more so than myself or any other person with careers and family. I think he should have "assigned" moderators from the get go, NOT based on posting volume. Heck I'd vote for any of you guys (Dafrca, Maksim, Nealhunt, Jimbo, etc.), since I have seen you guys around the Epic scene, in some cases, years. Once responsible people got into those critical roles, then they could guide, summarize and otherwise make Jervis's collection of data simpler. Its important for the moderator, or my case the coordinator to have people's trust. You don't need to like me, but you need to beleive I am fair.

This also reduces the amount of people who "don't get heard". One of my main jobs on the NetEpic list is to point out to the more vocal and involved participants that a fellow member who may not be too vocal has said something important and it must be discussed and evaluated. Everyone's opinion is important and its easy to just listen to the most frequent poster and overlook that gem that a less frequent poster has written.

Do polls. Yeah, it's a pain and, yes, they may not be representative, but they are a tool and a useful one. Find out what people expect the game to be. My largest critisism about this playtest project is that before sitting down to design, they should have asked a couple of simple questions:

1. What Is Epic?
2. What is the scope it should encompass?
3. What you absolutely MUST have in this game for it to be great for you?
4. What you can live without?

I dont expect full, unanimous agreement, but you can establish trends and work from there.

Finally if you ask for feedback, listen to it. Nothing pisses off a person that feeling ignored. Note this does not mean acceptance nor inclusion of what the person has said, but acknowledgement of the point brought up is important.

It's all moot I think, bad blood has arisen and tainted the process, a bad sign for any fledgling game. Instead of two sides pitted against each other, we will soon see three (old Epic vs. Epic40k vs. Epic-A) sides. If we aren't already there.

I would suggest though, instead of bitterness, be constructive, why not just make your own rules? Legion-4, myself and many others do this and it's a very liberating experience.

Primarch
Author:  Legion 4 [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
I again agree with Primarch. ?

Do what works for you and your gaming clan.

Play the game the way you want to play it...

That's what we've been doing for years... ?:D ?

I won't tell, Jervis or the =][= ! ?Promise !
Author:  darkone26 [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
I joined the E-A Playtesting Forum to join in and see how it was developing. Developments are going well and, to be honest, I just read the forum and do not post purely because it's too risky! ?

How can people, in general, get so fired up over a game? ?

Reading some of the threads discourages me to post and the forum for me is for information purposes only. Shame that it is as I got into the forum way too late. Still, it's nice to be discussing the game here! :D

Doug
Author:  Tas [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Quote (dafrca @ 27 2003 June,09:08)
When I first logged on the feel was one of cooperation and exploration. In the last few months it seems it is more about how to find offense and recycle old hurts.

Here I feel the level is much more calm and mature here.
Well, as mature as a buch of grown men playing with toys can be. :laugh:


Well said, Dafrca!

That mirrors my own thoughts exactly. I still dip my oar here and there on occasion, but nowhere near as frequently as I used to for the same reasons that others have stated here.

I can appreciate passion in a hobby, but not to fanboy levels. That's for 40k players!

In fact, I rarely log in anywhere else, BUT here anymore. ?

Shucks, I just dig you guys! :)
Author:  primarch [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Hi!


In fact I rarely log in anywhere else BUT here anymore.  Shucks I just dig you guys!


My sentiments too, I rarely post anywhere but here.

Primarch
Author:  stormseer [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
LOL, me too!

I used to lurk about on the GW forums all the time (deluded fool that I was), as well as Portent and a couple of others, but as all of us here seem to have formed a really good community, and it's now simply more fun (and more mature here), I rarely bother to go elsewhere now...
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Primarch:  I didn't mean to give the impression I was disenchanted with the game.  I think it's the best 6mm GW yet.  I am just disppointed with the recent forum activity.

Maksim:  I don't have a problem with Gandalf or Horseman.  I think they have both been in the right more often than not.

I thought Gandalf's recent spat was a bit much.  I saw it develop before deletions started.  Gandalf may have responded in anger, but my opinion is he did not precipitate the confrontation.

I do wish Horseman had honored requests to stick closer to the playtest idea rather than posting large volumes of "fan list" stuff.  However, I think the undiplomatic manner in which he was "asked" to refrain caused hard feelings and subsequent stubbornness all around.  A solution was found, so it's not a big deal, but it should have been a minor issue.

================

None of this is to say I haven't had my share of confrontations. }:)   All of this is intended as good-natured venting of frustration.  No offense is intended to anyone, and I don't mean to name-call or stir up a bunch of drama.  If anyone thinks I am, you have my apologies.  Say so, and I'll shut up.

I've attempted to assume anyone making an obnoxious comment did so unintentionally.  But, you know, when you point-blank ask someone if their sarcasm was intended as a joke and they say no, it's hard to not get ticked off.
Author:  dafrca [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Quote (nealhunt @ 27 2003 June,08:04)
I've attempted to assume anyone making an obnoxious comment did so unintentionally. ?But, you know, when you point-blank ask someone if their sarcasm was intended as a joke and they say no, it's hard to not get ticked off.

Neal, I am glad you do this. I wish more people did.

One of the things that I have seen change over at Playtest is people seem to not only assume any comment is a slam, but even seem to be going out of their way to offend.

Dafrca
Author:  primarch [ Fri Jun 27, 2003 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community
Hi!

I have a question for anyone who frequents the E-A forum:  

WHY things have gotten to this point of hositility?

I don't frequent it that much, but I don't remember it being that hostile until recently.

Has it slowly built up or did it just recently explode?

Primarch
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