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Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
pixelgeek
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:09 am 
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Are things like the Land Raider and Rhino restricted for use only by the Astartes or would the Adeptus Mechanicus use them as well?

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:30 am 
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The rhino seems to be a ubiquitous elite imperial APC, so the AdMech surely have access to them.

Land Raiders are technically purely for use by the Astartes. So the Emperor decreed, apparently. That said, the Inquisition also have Land Raiders, then again, the Inquisiton can have pretty much what they want. It should be noted that Witch Hunters Land Raiders are noted as having tech-priest crew. The Raiders are presumably made at for at least some Chapters at Forge Worlds, so the Mechanicus must have the capability to make them.

So clearly Land Raiders aren't really purely for use by the Space Marines, but you'll find people very resistant to the idea that the Mechanicus may be able to field them to war. That said, I'm sure they use some of them - after all, if they're lying around when a forgeworld comes under attack it would dihonour the machine's war spirit not to allow it into battle. And they do need test driving, can't just send them out without some quality control. The mechanicus can even have them crewed by techmarines-in-training - after all, LR crew have been trained by the mechanicus - which technically would be adhering to the Emperor's edict.
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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:38 am 
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I figured Rhinos wouldn't be an issue but that LRs would for the reason you mentioned.

What about Predators and Land Speeders?

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:54 am 
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Preds are light tanks, I think the marines use them cause they can be air dropped. However theres never been anything against anyone else using them beyond their complexity.

Speeders likewise, however anti grav is supposed to be a tricky area of faith so that could account for wide variation.

I guess other marine toys would be judged on whether they are stc or not. Also the AM might use older, 'more blessed' versions like troop carrying preds and whirlwinds.

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The Red Sorcerer
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:09 am 
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Regarding the Land Raider (from 'History of the Land Raider, GW Website):
The popularity of the Land Raider in Imperial forces was nothing short of overwhelming. A whole forge world, Anvilus 9, was turned over entirely to the production of Land Raiders and the design spread throughout the galaxy with the Emperor's fleets. At that time, the Land Raider was used by almost every human force, including the Space Marines and the Imperial Army. There was not a battlefield in the first two hundred years of the Imperium that had not tested the mettle of this awesome war engine. Then the Warmaster Horus virus bombed Istvaan V and the Great Heresy engulfed the galaxy. Anvilus 9 was overrun by renegade Techpriests at the outset of the heresy, and production of the Land Raiders was suddenly reduced to a trickle from a handful of forge worlds still loyal to the Emperor's rule (many forge worlds opted to secede from the Imperium at this point, rather than joining one side or the other). With the Warmaster's forces threatening to overrun Terra, the Emperor decreed that all Land Raiders still in loyalist service were to be recalled for exclusive use by the Legionnes Astartes, who were at the forefront of the fighting.

....The Heresy was eventually crushed by the sacrifice of the Emperor, but with the Emperor's ascension to the Golden Throne none dared countermand his order that Land Raiders were for the exclusive use of the Space Marines. Thus has it remained for the last ten thousand years.

So the Land Raider was originally used by Imperial Army as well as the Space Marine Legions, but these days is Marines only by direct order of the Epmeror. I knew that Ordo Malleus Inquisitors have access to them in the army list (which I always assumed was them comandeering them from the Grey Knights) but didn't realise there was support for their use by Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors. You live and learn I guess. Still, Admech use remains problematical to justify due to the fact it is countermanding the Emperor's decree.

Land Speeders (from Imperial Armour II):
The first of these high-speed, ground-skimming vehicles entered service towards the end of the Great Crusade. Then they served in all branches of Mankinds forces, but now all that remain, and all those that are newly constructed are allocated only to the Space Marine Chapters. They are to precious and complex to be risked in the hands of Imperial Guardsmen.
Again, once in use with all armed forces, but now Marines
only. Still, its use is restricted due to availability and complexity rather than the Emperor's decree, so there is definitely a case for the Admech using them due to their mechanical expertise.

Predators (From Imperial Armour II):
It is known that recognisable vehicles, like the first Rhinos and Predators, were operating during the Great Crusade. At the time they were not restricted to use by the Space Marine Legions, there is evidence that the Imperial Army used the same standard vehicles.
So once again, was once in use by the Imprial Army as well. Use now is probably restricted due to the Predator's greater complexity than IG tanks, but this is clearly not a problem for the Admech, so you could certainly justify them using Predators.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:18 am 
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Thanks for the info Red Sorceror.

If I may add some further comments on the Predator:

I'd find it likely that instead of using Predators, the Ad-Mech would use Leman Russ Conquerors in that role, the reason being the Conqueror has superior armour protection and the same speed.

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widgren
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:27 am 
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what about a death-ray russ? no sponsons and a big tesla coily thingie to replace the battlecannon. ap5+/at4+, disrupt?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:46 am 
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(widgren @ Jun. 19 2008,11:27)
QUOTE
what about a death-ray russ? no sponsons and a big tesla coily thingie to replace the battlecannon. ap5+/at4+, disrupt?

How about this plasma-spewing Russ that's already in the Skitarii list as an alternative to a Vanquisher?


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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Adeptus Mechanicus and Marine vehicles
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:54 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 19 2008,03:18)
QUOTE
I'd find it likely that instead of using Predators, the Ad-Mech would use Leman Russ Conquerors in that role, the reason being the Conqueror has superior armour protection and the same speed.

I suspect that they may in fact kit out their PDF forces with them but I am curious to see what other options the AM forces have for equipping themselves.

More reading may be in order :-)

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