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Odd question for native english speakers
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:49 pm 
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Because this is the first english board wich came to my mind where i casnpost this and not deleted because it is waaaaaaaay offtpic i ask here :D

The question: Wat is the difference between "the game" and "the play"?

The german translation would be "das Spiel" for both.

So what is "a game" and "a play". What is "gaming" and what is "playing"?
Are we playing a game or are we gaming a play? (in german both would be "Wir spielen ein Spiel.")

P.S: Sorry for my sillyness :D




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:02 pm 
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In English, "play" as a noun usually refers to a theatrical performance, as in William Shakespeare wrote many plays. As a verb, it means to engage in a game.  "Gaming", at least to me, refers to the hobby as a whole. "Game" as a noun can mean a couple of things. For example, Monopoly or Chess is a game. Or you can say, "let's play a game", but you aren't necessarily referring to a specific game.

Does that help? I'd be happy to elaborate as necessary.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:09 pm 
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I think D/S got right !  English has a lot of words that have more than one meaning ! :D

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vanvlak
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:10 pm 
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We therefore play games, but do not game plays. Play is the accepted verb, game the noun. And you also get 'gameplay', which would be a verb as well.
I can also play about (messing around or having fun in some infantile way) and be game (or be willing to do something).

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Phew!  Good queston!

Play is (generally) not used as a noun outside the theater.  The only use I can think of off the top of my head is 'to make a play' in which case it referes to making an action.

So:  "I made a play for the leader's job." would imply that you had initated events that you thought would give you a good chance of taking over the leader's job.  This is analogous to the use of 'plays' in American Football.

"game" the noun, is used to refer to a competitive activity with a set of rules.

Does that help or does it just open up  more questions?  I'm bi-lingual English/French so I find this kind of thing fascinating.

Orde

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:57 pm 
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I'm facinated in this things too. Thanks for all the answers guys :) They helped a lot. Always wondered why in english there are differences.

It is interesting that there are several words in a certain language which have only one word in another. But the meaning could be the same.

A few days ago i learned that the first words for colours where "dark", "bright" and "red" (well not englisch words :D ). Later there came "dark not-red" and "bright not-red" which could be used for example for blue or green, etc.
Even today certain "primitive" tribes use these descriptions but have understandings of all possibel collours but only such few words for them.

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:32 pm 
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(IIRC) English originates from a combination of Norse and Anglo Saxon when the populations intermingled in the Dark Ages.  This has resulted in a number of words that describe the same thing but have slightly different meanings.  It's also the reason English is the only(?) European language that does not assign gender to objects - the same object would have different genders in Norse and Anglo Saxon so it worked out easier for everyone to get rid of it as it didn't really add anything in the first place.

I can't remember where I got this from and can't be bothered to look it up but, even if it's not true, it's a good story :-)

Orde

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Otterman
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:36 pm 
Yen keeps trying to teach me Cambodian. But then, immediately after teaching me a word, she tries to teach me Laos and Thai.

While fascinating from a linguistics point of view, it makes for a frustrating learning experience. "No, Yen, just one at a time. Just the Cambodian!"

Khmer (the Cambodian language) has an interesting sexual aspect. Unlike Latin words that differentiate word gender with an ending (hermana, hermano), they use completely different words. For example, a man uses a different word for 'yes' than a woman. There are essentially three components: mens words, womens words, and common words.

Curiously, English suffers the same problem. Since it integrates so many different languages (Germanic/Dutch, French, Latin, Scandinavian), it has much redundancy and unnecessary complexity.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:40 pm 
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The thing with no gender for objects is interesting.

Quite the contrary is japanese. They have different words for numbers based on the type of objects which are counted. If you count long-and-thin objects you use different words for one, two, three, etc than for small-and-fat objects :D

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:53 pm 
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(Otterman @ Oct. 25 2007,21:36)
QUOTE
Khmer (the Cambodian language) has an interesting sexual aspect. Unlike Latin words that differentiate word gender with an ending (hermana, hermano), they use completely different words. For example, a man uses a different word for 'yes' than a woman. There are essentially three components: mens words, womens words, and common words.

This is the same in Thai (my wife is Thai). The polite form of the sentence ends in a masculine or feminine conclusion depending on the sex of the speaker.

(IIRC) English originates from a combination of Norse and Anglo Saxon when the populations intermingled in the Dark Ages.  This has resulted in a number of words that describe the same thing but have slightly different meanings.  It's also the reason English is the only(?) European language that does not assign gender to objects - the same object would have different genders in Norse and Anglo Saxon so it worked out easier for everyone to get rid of it as it didn't really add anything in the first place.


This sounds about right. However, English has a huge number of roots, including Germanic evidence, Latin and other European stems. I think that this is one reason why we have many words for the same thing.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:06 pm 
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This is the same in Thai (my wife is Thai). The polite form of the sentence ends in a masculine or feminine conclusion depending on the sex of the speaker.


The same in japanese :) "watashi wa baka desu" means "i am an idiot" but if you say "boku wa baka desu" it sounds more manly.
And if you pronounce the "u" in "desu" you sound gay :D

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Markconz
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:25 pm 
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English is an annoying language with lots of redundancy and contradictions in it's construction rules. German (and Maori in my own country) is better in that respect as I understand it.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:08 pm 
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German is a contradictory language. German uses different articels todifferentiate the gender of subject es but inrnglish there is only one article: "der", "die", "das" = "the" in englisch.
"der" is used for masculinum
"die" for femininum or plural
"das" for neutrum or objects

But this is not a rule written in stone. For example:

"das Boot" = "the boat" becaus it's an object
but
"der Panzer" = "the tank" It's an object but it's also masculinum in german.
"die Pfanne" = "the pan" it's an object but it's also femininum in german.

Even similar groups words have it:
"der M?rser" = "the mortar"
"die Kanone" = "the cannon"
"das Gewehr" = "the rifle"

All are weapons but with different genders.

And don't get me started on rules for setting commas :D At least with the new rules for orthography it's a bit easier :)




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Markconz
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:36 pm 
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Mortars are boys but cannons are girls??  :O  :D

I guess in English sometimes objects are referred to as 'she', at least for ships and the like.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Odd question for native english speakers
PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:02 am 
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Yes, that is interesting about the gender of German weapons. I took 2 years of German in HS. Used it a little in (W)Germany. I picked up a little Korean and Spanish in my Army travels as well. But Let me tell you the biggest Linguistic challange was learning Klingon ! :alien: bItuHpa' bIHeghjaj !

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