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Andy Hall on SG future
Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:22 am 
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Like Andy said to people at Games Day, yeah no future SG releases until GW higher ups decide differently, though  current ranges and posting of articles by him will remain. Also he points out that GW have actually just invested in SG IP through development of a Bloodbowl computer game (that sounds interesting!  :)  Shame they couldn't find the funds to just finish off the Chaos and Nid epic ranges too though... :( )

Articles this time are Inquisitor, Mordheim, Necromunda, along with a reminder about the Epic Competition.

Also Jervis and Andy will be at the Bloodbowl World Cup (which they claim to be the largest gaming event ever held at Warhammer World). If anyone is going along maybe wave an Epic flag...

http://www.specialist-games.com/

Welcome to another issue of Fanatic Online. It?s a bit of a House Rules special this month.
First up is an Inquisitor house rules article for using Chaos Space Marines in your games! Should you wish to have these superhuman psychos in your games then Inquisitor vet, Richard Anastasios has come up with some great, suitably twisted rules. Read it now.

The next set of house rules for a fresh batch of Hired Swords in Mordheim. Including the Imperial Tactician and a beggar these characters are great fun. The only thing missing from Daniel Logee?s excellent article are some suitable conversions. I?m sure there are some Mordheim hobbyists out there who would be only too happy to provide some suitable models. If you do send some photos in and we?ll get them online. Read it now.

Finally for this issue we have more vehicle mayhem in Necromunda, last month it was a return to the Ash Wastes, this issue it?s house rules for vehicles found within the Underhive. Thanks to Bill Etherington for this great article. Read it now.

Epic players shouldn?t forget about our ongoing army list competition. You?ve got until the end of October so there is still plenty of time to send in your entry, in what is turning about to be a very popular contest with loads of entries already been sent in.

Thanks to everyone who came to talk to me at Games Day the other week, as ever it was good putting names to faces and been able to chat face to face. I?ve noticed that in the Games Day post write ups I may have been slightly missed quoted on one or two threads. So to set the record straight and prevent further confusion, I never said that Games Workshop would never do any Specialist Games miniatures ever again, that is not the case. However, the Adeptus Mechanicus ships released this summer does mark the end of the miniatures in our current bi-annual release strategy. So there will be no further new releases for the Specialist Games going forward in the near future. Where we go from here is a good question and one that is being decided by people far higher up the GW chain than me. In the meantime I?ll continue to do my bit on this very website. Specialist Games and their accompanying ranges will remain in place and available from Direct channels. Games Workshop remains committed to the Specialist Games and their IP as evidenced by the Blood Bowl computer game that is currently in development.

Speaking of Blood Bowl the World Cup, the largest Blood Bowl event, indeed, the largest gaming event ever to be held in Warhammer World is taking place on the 19th-21st of October. Both me and Jervis will be about for this and I?m really looking forward to the sheer spectacle of having so many Blood Bowl coaches in one place. This Tournament is not an official GW event and has been organised by the NAF, to learn more about the NAF head over to their website at www.BloodBowl.net

Also, Inquisitor Players shouldn?t forget about the Inquisitor Grand Tournament, which is happening at Warhammer World on the 8th of December. You can find out more about this great event by visiting Dark Magenta at: www.darkmagenta.net/inqgt.html

For now,
Andy @ Fanatic

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:41 am 
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Maybe I'm reading too much into the comments but it looked like back tracking to me, almost like he got reprimanded for saying something (the truth) and now is trying to spin the comments.

I mean honestly, when is the last time Andy read the threads? :devil:

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Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:00 pm 
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I think you're perhaps being a bit paranoid Mosc. It sounds like he is saying exactly what he said to people at Games Day to me... "that's right, we aren't making any more stuff until someone above me changes there mind, not anything I can do". Doesn't get much blunter than that :(

The Bloodbowl computer game thing got me thinking though. Apart from Epic which they have royally screwed again, I don't think there really is any good way they could invest in almost any of the other games (except maybe advertising in White Dwarf, or stocking in their shops). I mean they have already covered all the races from the core games plus expanded universe races (eg Amazons, Araby). Apart from completing Epic the only way they could really invest usefully is by making entirely new games (including computer games I guess).

I mean remember when they resculpted some of the Necromunda, Mordheim, and Warmaster stuff over the last couple of years? What a waste of resources!  Why bother, the replacements didn't even look any better in most peoples opinions.

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Onyx
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:10 pm 
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The thing about the BloodBowl PC game is that the game basically already existed (the PC game was called Chaos League and was a blatent copy of BB. GW and the games designers came to an agreement and now the new game is called Blood Bowl).

Doesn't seem like much of an investment...

Here's hoping GW's bottom line improves and the higher ups want to develop some things (or finish what they have started).




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Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:17 pm 
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Ok so very opportunistic in other words.

But the point remains, (apart from finishing Epic), what other ways could GW usefully invest in the other game systems, such that it would actually be worth the return? When you have well established popular rule sets, and comprehensive lines of miniatures, there must be a point where it's time for something new rather than just reinventing the wheel as they had been doing?

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:27 pm 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 05 2007,12:00)
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I think you're perhaps being a bit paranoid Mosc. It sounds like he is saying exactly what he said to people at Games Day to me... "that's right, we aren't making any more stuff until someone above me changes there mind, not anything I can do". Doesn't get much blunter than that :(

That was the impression that I got. I was a little confused. He initially said that he had been misquoted, and then went on to say exactly what all these threads actually already said. The 'doom of SG' comments are made as a consequence of his comments, and no-one (as far as I know) is claiming that he said this too.

His blog entry pretty much confirmed everything that we already knew. It was totally unsurprising to me.  :(

I do take your point about the expansion of the SG games. However, you could say that for 40K. There are always ways to expand the games. Suppliments for Necro and Mord - integration of Gorka into Necro was on the cards at one point, MOW into Warmaster at another. BB could have almost unlimited teams, in the way that WHFB has unlimited force types - even two Skaven teams could have different and specific models. Epic has loads of stuff just to bring it up to date!  :glare:  Inquisitor could have any characters from hte huge numbers drawm from the BL books - remembrancers, starship crew, etc. BFG has a large number of fleets potentially available, or even different designs of Cruisers!

At the end of the day, if GW actually wanted to expand any or all of the games, they could. It is an expending and fantasy world. There are no limits.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Ok but to me almost everything you talk about no longer makes real sense from a business perspective these days (internet and cheap (free!) publishing software?). I mean players make buckets of supplement stuff for free now right?

MOW into Warmaster, really that sounds more like a new game to me.

Gorkamorka, honestly was nothing more than what you could do with kill-team rules in 40k, and furthermore 40k kill-team rules were more fun for orks zooming around in trucks than the tedious mechanics of Gorka-morka. Either that or it's just yet another fan article (eg last fanatic online included a 100 page rule and campaign supplement for Mordheim!). Why bother paying staff for this stuff?

Of course Epic needs more, but I can't really see why I'd bother with any of the other systems at this stage. Inquisitor maybe.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:51 pm 
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Paranoid?  No.  Cynical?  Yes.  The optimist sees the glass as half full; the pessimist sees it as half empty.  For me all I see is that somebody drank half my water and drooled all over the glass. :)

I wasn't saying that SG is doomed.  But I am thinking that Andy wasn't so much as misquoted as he had misspoken.  His words, tone, and demeanor seemed to have conveyed to several people a general sense of doom and now he's backtracking (call it clarifying if it makes you feel better) to play C.Y.A.  It is nice to know that SG will remain open for the time being, although the looming concern of "what happens when the moulds wear out?" is something that everyone is wondering about but will never get an answer on.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Hmmm, So no new minis but he stated GW's continued commitment to the IP.

So they want you to buy their figures but not to mess with the rules. Or am I being cynical?
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mageboltrat
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:03 am 
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I think Inquisitor could make a huge amount of money if marketed right. 54mm miniatures are collector miniatures, why not promote them as such.

Who wouldn't want to paint a large figure of Gaunt, Loken or the Sister out of Demonfuge or other major black library characters, and on an offside, they might be useful to Inquisitor players. You could release them after the books, recoup your costs in no time as fan boys buy them and increase the range for Inquisitor.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:36 am 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 05 2007,06:27)
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That was the impression that I got. I was a little confused. He initially said that he had been misquoted, and then went on to say exactly what all these threads actually already said.

You're assuming he was refering to the threads from this board or the official SG boards, but I bet he was refering to this thread on dakka dakka:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/Communi....lt.aspx

The title "SG 'officially' dead" is factually incorrect, and at first glance would imply that the SG website, etc, would be rolled up and vanish into the Aether in the imminent future. I imagine that's what he was refering to.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:52 am 
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(Mephiston @ Oct. 05 2007,14:36)
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Hmmm, So no new minis but he stated GW's continued commitment to the IP.

So they want you to buy their figures but not to mess with the rules. Or am I being cynical?

I don't think they are worried too much about people messing with rules. In fact Andy seems to encourage it provided it is of sufficient quality (at least I hope that is the criteria he is trying to use...).

I mean he posted another two houserule articles yesterday (including 'vehicles in Necromunda' - which is basically Gorkamorka back again!), and is running an Epic competition that can involve new rule creation.


I think Magebolt is correct, Inquisitor could be made much more of it they wanted. If you can sell Epic games with 40k scale, why not try for 40k games with Inquisitor scale...  :D

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:05 pm 
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(Markconz @ Oct. 05 2007,12:39)
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Ok but to me almost everything you talk about no longer makes real sense from a business perspective these days (internet and cheap (free!) publishing software?). I mean players make buckets of supplement stuff for free now right?

Generally, you are correct. But, we are currently at the stage where the same thing could be said for any suppliment. Why does GW produce a 40K campaign suppliment when the players could do it? The difference is the miniatures. Yes, we, the players, could easily put together these suppliments, but then we could also write the rules and put together Swordwind - and to a certain extent, we did.

The issue here is not about what the playing community to do, but whether it would be worth GW doing it, in terms of minature sales. If this is the questions, then my previous list mostly stands. Each of the suggestions would provide some scope for new miniatures.

The real issue here is that GW have no plans for future miniatures. This means no reason to put any effort into supporting the game or writing anything. This leaves them 'serious but stable' - ie, dead.

While Andy made a big deal about how this is only for future plans, and GW will be 'making a decision on SG', the fact is that this represents a further 'down sizing'. Even the most blind supporter of SG will have to admit that really it is just a matter of time until GW unplug the life support on SG. Sure, there is 'still a decision to be made', but if we were looking at a resurrection, GW would never had let it get to this stage. I suspect that the decision is how long to wait before making a four month fuss over a single SG game is to boost annual takings marginally.

The optimist sees the glass as half full; the pessimist sees it as half empty.  For me all I see is that somebody drank half my water and drooled all over the glass.


Well, I am a computer person, so for me the glass is of an non optimal storage structure to act as a repository for the specific medium!  :;):

Only a year ago, I probably would not have been so down about this news. The fact now is that GW have constantly and consistently lied, broken promises and demonstrated exactly how important these games and these players are to them. It really hacks me off that we actually have less miniatures available from GW now than we did before SG, and in most cases at a higher price!

Epic and the SG games are not 'dead' in the traditional sense, since we will still play them, but without GW support, they will show no growth and a steady loss of community. I will continue to play Epic, but it seems time for me to plug a few holes in my forces with some new units, and find the next game to actually contribute to. Hopefully a game from a company that actually values the support.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:49 pm 
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(CyberShadow @ Oct. 06 2007,14:05)
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Only a year ago, I probably would not have been so down about this news. The fact now is that GW have constantly and consistently lied, broken promises and demonstrated exactly how important these games and these players are to them. It really hacks me off that we actually have less miniatures available from GW now than we did before SG, and in most cases at a higher price!

Actually we have more now....

Bad old e40k days ranges we had:
-Marines
-Guard
-Eldar
-Orks
-Tyranids
-Chaos sprue...
(and near the end they opened the archives for a bit so you could get some limited amount of other things, and they released super cheap infantry sprues (I got about 50 of them...)).

Now we have:
-Marines
-Guard
-Baran Guard
-Eldar
-Orks
-Feral Orks
-Chaos Sprue
-Heaps of free rules and articles for download which were not available before, further more they are not in irritating White Dwarf sales pitch format.
-Also the extra Forge World stuff if you want to count that.

So there is more available, and the ranges are actually much bigger in most cases. Unfortunately they are just not bigger in the right places, I would happily have sacrificed the Baran Guard and maybe even Feral ork range (well maybe not the orks actually :)) to get a few more Chaos bits and the Nid range done. It didn't work out that way, but it's not true to say there is less available I think.

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Andy Hall on SG future
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:53 am 
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I just don't see "no new minis until further notice" as the same as "dead."  Man O' War is dead.  Space Hulk is dead.  Most of the Specialist Games are "mature," with the exception of Epic, which is "not quite ripe yet."  I don't see how the endless churning cycle of new releases actually makes a game any better.  New miniatures means they need new rules so people will buy them, and then you get power creep, absurd special rules that big down gameplay,  and other such nastiness.  

 Sometimes a game is just Done.  "Yes, we've finished it; it's great.  Enjoy!"

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