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Tiding from SG about epic
Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:20 pm 
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(dafrca @ Jul. 31 2006,20:32)
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Allowing fans to talk rules to death does not support make.

Amen, Brother Dafrca.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:29 pm 
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Regretfully agreed.

At least my local store is pretty reasonable in that we can game there any day except Saturday (which is 12-year-old's 40k & LOTR day by all appearances).

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consectari
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:14 pm 
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This was posted roughly an hour and a half ago at the SG forum.  Thought some here might want to see it.

ANSWER_MOD_nealhunt:   Okay, let me clarify so as to not libel Andy.

Communication was basically to the effect of, "You guys know the rules better and have far more experience than I do. I'm going to trust your judgement on rule changes."

I would like to see a bit more organization or management coming from SG, but based on track record and Andy's comments I extrapolated that it is not likely to be forthcoming.

It wasn't an explicit "you're on your own" like my earlier post makes it sound. While it's not clear how the process is going to play out I do think it is clear that more of it is in our court than we were previously expecting and it will take some time to sort of "gear up" as it were.

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dafrca
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:19 pm 
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I thank Neal for the clearification, but it does not change the overall message.

dafrca

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consectari
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Honestly, I don't see how it changes much.  Basically it says we aren't going to be involved or in contact with you.  Which is pretty much how it's been for some time.

The one thing it has done is given the ERC more of a leg to stand on if they decide to say "OK, this looks good, no ones complaining, let's call it official"  (just a summation, I KNOW that there would never be a time when NO ONE is complaining about a rules change).

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:38 pm 
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Maybe it has more to do with perception than reality.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:47 pm 
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We literally do all Epic rules here... seems to me, now!

And DRM is releasing a set of rules soon... not to mention GZG's and others... so again, G/W at this point seems unneeded... unless you're a rabid "Fanboy"... but as always DWWFY! :D

The DRM rules may be a major paradigm shift, but in any event...

I think we need to get out of the "G/W Epic is the center of the 6mm Sci-Fi Uni Mindset!"

And move more to an overall 6mm Sci-fi "mindmeld."

With G/W's Epic being seminal, but very much enhanced by DRM, GZG, BT, SJM, etc. ... :D

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:54 pm 
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I'll be sticking with Epic:A thanks, I like the background, the models & the game, while I'm underwhelmed with large portions of the other 6mm sci fi out there.

Perhaps this is because to a large degree they lack the subliminal added detail that for example, looking at a an Epic Space Marine has, due to the detail found on a 30mm model, but also, sometimes it's just because I downright prefer the style.


Now what I'd really like to see is NetEpic:Armageddon - Titan Leigons III. :D

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consectari
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:46 pm 
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G/W at this point seems uneeded ... unless you're a rabid "Fanboy"


While I don't consider myself a rabid fanboy, I don't want GW/SG to go away.  I would much rather use actual CSM for CSM.  I like DRM Andys, but they aren't Necrons and never will be.  They are just a passable stand in.
 
I WANT REAL EPIC MINIS.  

I LIKE the Epic background.  Without Epic, I simply COULD NOT play any 6mm.  I only have 1 opponent and that's all he plays!

I don't believe with places like this forum, that there will ever be a shortage of "suppliments" to go with Epic, but realistically new OFFICIAL minis may be VERY limited or non existant.

It looks like people are dividing up into 2 camps.  Those that prefer only GW's minis and those that are willing to go outside GW for minis.  

No one can stop you if you want to use only GW, but realistically, your selection will run dry and soon.  If you are satisfied with what you get, that's great.

There are those like L4, myself, and many others that want a wider range available to us.  You'll never build a Necron army if you wait for GW to provide all the pieces, or a "Slann" army, or possibly even Chaos.  Not to mention alot of homebrew ideas that are just as good, just as valid as alot of the background GW has cranked out.  GW is never going to give me the Bridgelayer that GZG will.

I'm underwhelmed with large portions of the other 6mm sci fi out there.

Large portions are poor quality, or just lack detail and style, yes, but there's alot of good stuff out there too, you just have to look harder to find it.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:50 pm 
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I agree with Evil and Chaos - I like the GW stuff and will continue to play the lines as long as I have the mini's.  From an optimistic perscpective though, here is my thought of the hour...

Without any need to produce rules, organize fans, or any other type of stuff, Specialist Games can focus on what they should be - making mini's.  The money it takes to pay for a full-time employee to work on this stuff has got to add up, even for a large company.  Cutting that cost will certainly go a long way to helping.

My guess is those people have already been cut, but the knowledge that they don't need to bring them back means SG can budget properly and hopefully make the lines for Chaos, Tyranid, Necron, Dark Eldar  :p , etc.  If their financial situation improves, I could see this happening.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:15 pm 
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I am an Epic Fan since I have 99.9% of everything G/W (and later F/W) has made for Epic since '90 ... But my point is, if(and when ?) G/W drops Epic like they did Man O'War ... we have alternatives ... And those companies I mentioned make very good minis, IMO ... ? ?I do like G/W-F/W Epic models for the most part ... but I'm not "hot" on the fluff ... However, on all points ... DWWFY ! ?:D ?But my prediction is we will see very, very, few Epic models from G/W (if any) and a few from F/W for their "Epic scale but not Epic rules" air war game out later this year ... ?I know DRM will continue to produce 6mm as will GZG and others ... but again DWWFY ...




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dafrca
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:01 pm 
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I think we need to slow down and not see this in absolutes. Just because someone WANTS GW Epic Minis does not mean they can not see the problems. And just because someone admits there is problems within the GW/SG family does nto mean they do not want GW Epic Miniatures.

I WANT my Sisters of Battle and Necrons. I do not want Proxies. I want SG to be successful and continue to produce new miniatures of all kinds. I want my Chaos friends to get their new minis. I want my Tyranid friends to get their bugs.

The fact that I see GW pulling support from Epic does not mean I want them to do so.

This is not a case of ?Loyal Fans? vs. ?Naysayers?. We are all here because we are fans.

dafrca

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:13 pm 
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Well said dafrca.

It's so awesome that this gentlemanly discussion is what passes for a flame war around here. :D

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dafrca
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:22 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 01 2006,14:13)
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Well said dafrca.

It's so awesome that this gentlemanly discussion is what passes for a flame war around here. :D

Darn, forgot to fuel up the flammer....  :p

Serious, I agree.

Inside we are all Epic Players. We all love buying and collecting the miniatures. So we have more we agree on then disagree on.

dafrca

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Reaver
 Post subject: Tiding from SG about epic
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:13 am 
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Sorry to jump in at this point, I don't normally post much, but decided to offer my thoughts.
I much prefer proper GM stuff, and want to use only official E:A rules. I love the background, and want to get back into tournament gaming. But we can only hold tournaments successfully if all Epic players are working from the same set of rules. And this means only using the original E:A rulebook and any official supplements that are released.
This makes developing the game a bit of a nightmare, unfortunately. The only solutions I see are:
SG picks up the reins again and invests some money. (Unlikely!)
or
Forgeworld takes over SG.
I'd love this to happen. They already produce a serious amount of Epic stuff, terrain, titans, planes, even the entire Tau range. Their quality is great, and the prices are pretty much on a par with SG stuff. They have also proved themselves capable of producing some amazing books.

I'd be prepared to shell out 50 or 60 quid for a new Epic rulebook of the quality of the Imperial Armour tomes, especially if it was accompanied by miniatures releases. And let's face it, FW are already working on Air Wars, a project SG shelved ages ago.

So let's all pester FW. Let's start by asking for a resin Warlord and a pack of variant weapons! Seriously though, I do think if SG has a future, giving FW control is the best way to proceed.

My 2p.
Reaver.

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