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GW Financials
Jimbo	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm Posts: 3495 Location: Wessex	Quote (Falesh @ 25 Mar. 2006 (23:15)) I live in York, UK, and When I was going to my local store to play many years ago (in the days of Rogue Trader) they had tables and alowed people to play their other games too like Space Hulk. It was somewhat small, but we could fit 2 or 3 games in at a time if I remember rightly. Maybe I was lucky with a good local shop though. Depends on what you mean by "many". When GW was in Goodramgate (sp?) in York the store was so small it had trouble fitting in the stock! I am talking about five to ten years ago. Whereas the culture of gaming tables in the US is I believe as old as gaming shops (ie 30 years). _________________ Jimbo Felix's Gaming Pages Felix's Gaming Pages Blog Almost Always Right...
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Falesh

Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:28 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:35 pm Posts: 313

When GW was in Goodramgate (sp?) in York the store was so small it had trouble fitting in the stock! Yeah that's the one, one table downstairs and 1 or 2 upstairs. You are right though it was small, "somewhat small" probably doesn't do it full justice. On the other hand I was smaller back then so maybe I remember it bigger then it actualy was. _________________ Easy printing Reference Sheets and Army Lists Pics of my mini's John Baldock

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Jimbo	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:29 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm Posts: 3495 Location: Wessex	When I use to visit it, there was no upstairs, but that was back in 1990! _________________ Jimbo Felix's Gaming Pages Felix's Gaming Pages Blog Almost Always Right...
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nealhunt	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:41 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Quote (primarch @ 26 Mar. 2006 (02:06)) Hi! Im my expereince well run stores a rare. I think I have only visited 3 across 15 states that I'd say were good and looked like they were in good financial condition. Bad business people usually make all sorts of excuses for thier woes. This is endemic in the game shop business. Dont know why it is. Primarch Hey Primarch:  You know you and I mostly agree on this stuff.  Most game shops are pretty pitiful from a retail perspective.  Even the regulars at the local indy shop admit that they buy just enough to try to keep the store in business and take all the rest of their purchases elsewhere, usually to an online discounter. I also agree that overall market control (especially pricing) was a strong factor in GW's no-internet decision.  I'm just not convinced that it was definitely a bad idea in and of itself.  I think that the pricing control it exercised served to exacerbate GW's loss of market share, but that is a matter of overall pricing strategy as much as cutting out discounters. In any case, we definitely agree that GW is making some bad business decisions. _________________ Neal
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:43 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11147 Location: Canton, CT, USA	Quote (Bombot @ 25 Mar. 2006 (22:02)) I just think GW are fundamentally mistaken if they think that players were sticking to one or two games alone and in doing so ignoring 40k or Fantasy Battle. ? I couldn't agree more. GW thinks of consumer spending as an either/or proposition, i.e. either we spend money on Epic (and other SG games) or we spend money on a core game. However, in my case (and many others I'm sure), it's not either/or; it's Epic or nothing, not Epic or a core game. _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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javelin98	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:42 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:39 am Posts: 791 Location: Spokane, WA, USA	Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 Mar. 2006 (15:43)) GW thinks of consumer spending as an either/or proposition, i.e. either we spend money on Epic (and other SG games) or we spend money on a core game. However, in my case (and many others I'm sure), it's not either/or; it's Epic or nothing, not Epic or a core game. I agree wholeheartedly.  The only GW game I play is Epic, and for the past three years that I've spent getting back into the hobby, I didn't play any GW games whatsoever.  Thinking from a businessman's perspective, it makes so much more sense to throw the net as wide as possible rather than try to steer everyone into a couple core products and lose all those customers who would rather not play one of those core games.  So long as each game line is carrying its own weight (and Epic most definitely would!), I don't see any justification for cutting them. Add to this the fact that I haven't given GW a cent of money getting back into the hobby -- all of my expenditures have been on the second hand market.  GW could have gotten that money with a more reasonable pricing and distribution scheme. _________________ Set phasers on "fun"!
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ragnarok	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:12 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm Posts: 2084 Location: Reading, England	I'm like most of you, pretty much the only GW games I collect are SG, though I do play a few games of 40K at the club I run (for the sake of the children). It is because of my love of the SG games that I still buy their stuff, if it wasn't for SG I would of bailed yearts ago and not of gotten myself a whole new tyranid army (complete with ?100 of MCs   ). Yet I find myself paying over the top prices on Ebay for my epic nid army, instead of paying over the top prices to GW. _________________ Tyranid air marshal
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wargame_insomniac	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:21 pm
Purestrain Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm Posts: 3305 Location: West Yorkshire, UK	Quote (javelin98 @ 27 Mar. 2006 (17:42)) Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 27 Mar. 2006 (15:43)) GW thinks of consumer spending as an either/or proposition, i.e. either we spend money on Epic (and other SG games) or we spend money on a core game. However, in my case (and many others I'm sure), it's not either/or; it's Epic or nothing, not Epic or a core game. I agree wholeheartedly. ?The only GW game I play is Epic, and for the past three years that I've spent getting back into the hobby, I didn't play any GW games whatsoever. ?Thinking from a businessman's perspective, it makes so much more sense to throw the net as wide as possible rather than try to steer everyone into a couple core products and lose all those customers who would rather not play one of those core games. ?So long as each game line is carrying its own weight (and Epic most definitely would!), I don't see any justification for cutting them. Add to this the fact that I haven't given GW a cent of money getting back into the hobby -- all of my expenditures have been on the second hand market. ?GW could have gotten that money with a more reasonable pricing and distribution scheme. Hi Unlike some Epiccomms members I do actually follow some of the other GW games even if I don't play as actively as I used to. However I only tend to buy a few figures these for 40k/WFB/LOTR- not based on how good they are in game but on whether I like the model. Apart from these odd figures I mainly stick to Epic. When EA was first released i bought some box sets for SM/IG/Orks. A couple of basic infantry boxes together with a handful of blisters for each of 3 armies. But after that I have stuck to buying Epic solely off ebay. I think that GW prices for Epic are too high and so would prefer to pick up second hand/discounted figures. I will probably buy 1 pack of Feral Ork infantry and couple of blisters of Junka truks, but that is pretty much all I will buy from GW direct. Cheers James _________________ My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts My Painting Blog- Evil Sunz, Goffs My Epic trades list
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javelin98	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:17 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:39 am Posts: 791 Location: Spokane, WA, USA	Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 27 Mar. 2006 (19:21)) I think that GW prices for Epic are too high and so would prefer to pick up second hand/discounted figures. Agreed.  In my case, though, it's not a matter of boycotting them to prove a point;  I am able to budget exactly $100 a month for all my hobby spending -- paints, minis, books, tools, etc., for a half-dozen different game systems, plus PC games, boardgames, things I might need for my mountain bike, etc. -- so the idea of paying $40 for a Gargant or $30 for four Land Raiders is so far removed from my personal reality that it's disheartening.  I have to go the second-hand route because GW has priced me out of their market.  Now, if I could count on getting two complete armies, terrain, and all the other nifties that came in the Epic 40K starter box for $75 at my FLGS, I'd consider that a kick-butt deal and I'd buy that on the retail market for certain.  As it is, though, I can't get any Epic stuff locally, and when a $8 blister from GW-US mail order costs me an additional $7.00 to ship, that's simply an incentive to turn to eBay or Bartertown. _________________ Set phasers on "fun"!
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Heresiarch	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:33 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:04 am Posts: 571 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada	Quote (nealhunt @ 27 Mar. 2006 (08:41)) Quote (primarch @ 26 Mar. 2006 (02:06)) Hi! Im my expereince well run stores a rare. I think I have only visited 3 across 15 states that I'd say were good and looked like they were in good financial condition. Bad business people usually make all sorts of excuses for thier woes. This is endemic in the game shop business. Dont know why it is. Primarch Hey Primarch:  You know you and I mostly agree on this stuff.  Most game shops are pretty pitiful from a retail perspective. Having spent close to 8 years doing sales and purchasing at the distribution level of the game "industry" I can 100% guarantee that the general level of competence and professionalism displayed by most game stores is entirely due to the fact that they're run by people who are gamers first and businessmen second if at all. I refused to take any of my new clients off COD for their first year in business as given a chance most of them would have ordered in 15 times the amount of stock that they could either afford or in fact actually sell because "they thought it was neat". How many furniture store owners opened up because it "was cool"? In the game industry it's seemingly almost the norm to open up without seriously considering the financials first and foremost. It causes a chain reaction up the line all the way to the manufacturers as well. For all the manufacturers who complain that their distributors are behind on their bills... and truth be told most are... it's because the problem is magnified 100 fold with the retailers behind behind on their payments to the distributors. I personally expect to see yet another round of consolidation shortly in the North American game industry as the D20 madness has gone away, theres no new "hot" card game and there truly has been a major shift into online RPGs like WoW or EQ. As I understand it RPG and card sales are down almost 30% across the board from a couple of years ago and while it may not affect miniatures per say it will certainly affect the shops that stock them. _________________ The Cheese! The Cheese!
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nealhunt	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:00 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	As I understand it RPG and card sales are down almost 30% across the board from a couple of years ago and while it may not affect miniatures per say it will certainly affect the shops that stock them. Wow.  I was unaware.  Where are you pulling your stats from?  I used to follow RPGnet for game industry news but I've fallen off the wagon. _________________ Neal

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Bombot	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:35 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm Posts: 348 Location: Reading, UK	Quote (Heresiarch @ 27 Mar. 2006 (20:33)) As I understand it RPG and card sales are down almost 30% across the board from a couple of years ago and while it may not affect miniatures per say it will certainly affect the shops that stock them. I would hazard a guess that quite a few card sales have turned into collectable mini sales.  Certainly that's true for a lot of the old Decipher players that I know in the States. _________________ "The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
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Heresiarch	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:45 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:04 am Posts: 571 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada	Quote (Bombot @ 27 Mar. 2006 (15:35)) Quote (Heresiarch @ 27 Mar. 2006 (20:33)) As I understand it RPG and card sales are down almost 30% across the board from a couple of years ago and while it may not affect miniatures per say it will certainly affect the shops that stock them. I would hazard a guess that quite a few card sales have turned into collectable mini sales.  Certainly that's true for a lot of the old Decipher players that I know in the States. Thats a good question. I'm genuinely not too sure presonally of just how much cross-over there is between the CCG and the CMG crowd. Theres no question that the collectable mini games have taken off in a big way. In particular the D&D one. The large local shop here in town sells 20-30 cases of each the first day they're on sale followed by a steady stream of "backlist" as well. The SW CMG sells less well but only by comparison as I know it outsells MW:DA locally. With the D&D in particular though a good chunk of the local sales are to the hard core roleplayers who don't play CCGs. I'm not sure how representative that is though in terms of sales elsewhere. And for whatever it's worth, on a personal note, when I saw the first sets of Wizkid's Mage Knight game I went " it'll never sell" so... what do I really know I guess? And I'm still waiting for Warhammer 40Klicks to come out... _________________ The Cheese! The Cheese!
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Bombot	Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:41 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm Posts: 348 Location: Reading, UK	Quote (Heresiarch @ 27 Mar. 2006 (22:45)) And I'm still waiting for Warhammer 40Klicks to come out... I?d hazard another guess (what the heck ) that the GW board have considered collectable minis.  My guess is if they have they?ve discarded the idea because it doesn?t fit in with the overall plan - i.e. getting people to spend money on paint too - and it would compete too much with the main 40k sales. _________________ "The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
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Heresiarch

Post subject: GW Financials Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:07 am

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:04 am Posts: 571 Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

Quote (nealhunt @ 27 Mar. 2006 (15:00)) As I understand it RPG and card sales are down almost 30% across the board from a couple of years ago and while it may not affect miniatures per say it will certainly affect the shops that stock them. Wow.  I was unaware.  Where are you pulling your stats from?  I used to follow RPGnet for game industry news but I've fallen off the wagon. Oops... missed this the first time Neal. Sorry. I actually know the sales manager for Steve Jackson Games personally as well as a couple of the business management crowd at Wizards of the Coast. I also keep in semi-frequent touch with a few of my larger... and I might add extremely competent... ex-clients. The client stories are admitedly anecdotal but both the WotC types and Ross should in theory know what they're talking about. And the three sets of stories do match each other so... _________________ The Cheese! The Cheese!

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