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All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
consectari
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:18 pm 
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Daf: They just got stuck in a "Must Use GW Bitz" rut.


This could just be propaganda, but the explaination I heard was that if a conversion uses bitz from another companies product, they can't feature photos for IP reasons.

The rule book doesn't expressly forbid using non-GW parts, but doesn't offer it as an option either.

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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:16 pm 
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(consectari @ Jul. 28 2006,09:18)
QUOTE
This could just be propaganda, but the explaination I heard was that if a conversion uses bitz from another companies product, they can't feature photos for IP reasons.

Nice reason but it just does not fly. Magazines have been doing it for years. Even White Dwarf did it. Further, I could take a GW Model, do some conversion and then post pictures of it and publish a "How I did it" article. As long as I say ?I used X in the creation of this? then it is not an issue of IP.

For example the dafrca Land Ship: I took an old style Rhino. Combined parts from both GW bitz sprue and other bitz and created my Land ship. I have posted photos etc for some time. Nothing GW can do about it. No IP violation here. I do not claim the parts are my creation nor am I casting it and trying to resell it.

The rule book doesn't expressly forbid using non-GW parts, but doesn't offer it as an option either.

No, the rule book does not. But look at their tournament rules. IT does state all models must be a particular % of GW or they can not be used.

In any case. They have lost part of their charm when they shifted from a hobby point of view to a ?Pure Marketing and Sales? point of view.

Dafrca

PS: Here is a picture of my Landship?..

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vanvlak
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:22 pm 
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Now waitaminnit, why havn't we seen this beauty before, eh, Dafrca?
:D  :D  :D  :cool:

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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:54 pm 
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(vanvlak @ Jul. 28 2006,11:22)
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Now waitaminnit, why havn't we seen this beauty before, eh, Dafrca?
:D ?:D ?:D ?:cool:

Ah, because the collection is larger then the Epic focus I had for a long time.  :;):

dafrca

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 7:55 pm 
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Actually I think the tournament rules generally state that miniatures including non-GW miniature components must be at least 51% GW.

Scratchbuilding a tank from a Deoderant can is still allowed, for example, because it's not a competing miniature product.

And those with sculpting skills can still field their 100% greenstuff Chaos leigions, etc.


They just don't want people rolling up to their events with entirely proxied armies using different manufacturer's models... scratchbuilding is still encouraged, or at least not banned. ;-)




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primarch
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:34 am 
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Hi!

Those pictures are from the adeptus titanicus book and represent kitbashed models of warmachines on the scale of CI type vehicles.

Those were the days.....

Primarch

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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:44 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 28 2006,11:55)
QUOTE
Actually I think the tournament rules generally state that miniatures including non-GW miniature components must be at least 51% GW.

Scratchbuilding a tank from a Deoderant can is still allowed, for example, because it's not a competing miniature product.

And those with sculpting skills can still field their 100% greenstuff Chaos leigions, etc.


They just don't want people rolling up to their events with entirely proxied armies using different manufacturer's models... scratchbuilding is still encouraged, or at least not banned. ;-)

I think this is wishful thinking. I know of one person who went to a Games Day and had three of his sculpts rejected because they were not GW. They were his creations, not another companies miniatures.

Further, I would love to see them allow my "Diaper Wipe Box" APC for my IG. Bet it would not get into the tournament either.

Even Jervis, in adding the ?Use As? rules in Epic would not go any further then saying GW sculpts for other GW sculpts.

I believe that the point of view you offer is how it should be, not the way it is.

dafrca

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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:45 am 
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(primarch @ Jul. 28 2006,17:34)
QUOTE
Those were the days.....

Thanks to NetEpic they can be again as well.  :;):

dafrca

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consectari
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:59 am 
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I don't let barriers like company names, an objects origins, or sometimes even the laws of nature stand in my way of playing the way I want to. ?

Just in the last month I've bought minis from GW, GZG, DRM, & SJG. ?I've got tons of WIP buildings made from everything from blisters to wood, cardboard, bottle caps, and styrofoam. ?I even have a few legit resin buildings. ?My wife knows not to throw any object away without letting me inspect it for scratch build value.

I think I'm an excellent example that you CAN teach a new dog old tricks.

Since GW has cut Epic loose, all of their conventions are gone.

Epic is dead....LONG LIVE EPIC.


EDIT:
Oh yeah, I forgot, I also bought from IWM this month. ?No one is safe. :O




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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:09 am 
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Well done consectari, well done.

dafrca

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Markconz
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:28 am 
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If you want crossover stuff there are plenty of places for it... like this forum.

However, expecting GW to be suicidal and encourage use of competitors products with its own money and through its own products in todays gaming market is ridiculous...  :laugh:  

I really do wonder what planet people are on sometimes...  :O

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dafrca
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:34 am 
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(Markconz @ Jul. 28 2006,22:28)
QUOTE
If you want crossover stuff there are plenty of places for it... like this forum.

However, expecting GW to be suicidal and encourage use of competitors products with its own money and through its own products in todays gaming market is ridiculous... ?:laugh: ?

I really do wonder what planet people are on sometimes... ?:O

If you disagree, fine, but please do not be disingenuous while doing so.

You know full well there is a very large differance between showing some crazy kit bash like they used to do (without hurting sales mind you) and "encourage use of competitors products".

Showing us someone's creativity in creating, for example, an Ordanati when they neither wish to sell them (Closed the Archive remember) or do not wish to create them (Whole Necron Army) is not hurting their sales.

What planet are we on? Earth. The same planet they were on when they were less about screwing their loyal customer base and cared about the long term relationships.

dafrca

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Legion 4
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:39 am 
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Yep !  I remember that pic ... those AFVs were scratchbuilt ... they mentioned that somewhere !  In my old age, I like to "kitbash" ... my 6 TBBW are almost done !  And with G/W killing off Epic, and DRM, GZG and others ... there is more to choose from !

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Markconz
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:06 pm 
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(dafrca @ Jul. 29 2006,05:34)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Jul. 28 2006,22:28)
QUOTE
If you want crossover stuff there are plenty of places for it... like this forum.

However, expecting GW to be suicidal and encourage use of competitors products with its own money and through its own products in todays gaming market is ridiculous... ?:laugh: ?

I really do wonder what planet people are on sometimes... ?:O

If you disagree, fine, but please do not be disingenuous while doing so.

You know full well there is a very large differance between showing some crazy kit bash like they used to do (without hurting sales mind you) and "encourage use of competitors products".

Showing us someone's creativity in creating, for example, an Ordanati when they neither wish to sell them (Closed the Archive remember) or do not wish to create them (Whole Necron Army) is not hurting their sales.

What planet are we on? Earth. The same planet they were on when they were less about screwing their loyal customer base and cared about the long term relationships.

dafrca

Sorry dafcra I am just responding to what I see as yet more GW bashing, and I don't think I am being disingenuous at all. I don't see why GW should use their official magazines and the like to promote products they can't sell, unless it is something necessary for a game but not economic for them to make it (like tables). Yet despite this, in my experience GW are actually very good at encouraging the use of cheap materials for scenery making, as well as green stuff sculpts, plasticard for vehicle conversions etc.

GW usually draws the line at putting a scratchbuilt rhino made from an M113 in a White Dwarf - and fair enough too. ?Yet even as I say that I remember seeing some hum-vee type non-GW models in a featured Guard army in a recent White Dwarf, and featured ork armies often have many non-Gw vehicles (including one in the most recent issue IIRC) which makes me think that they are not nearly as uptight about such things as some people would like to claim. The 'RT shampoo bottle tank' is still alive and well it seems to me.

Lets not forget that they put up epic fan work like the complete pdf necron paper army, and a fan built necron army. I am not at all sure a well done scratchbuilt ordinati would be automatically rejected either if someone did one of them. There's a chance one might turn up in the latest competition SG is running after all.




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Legion 4
 Post subject: All Old Skoola's, time for a test!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:45 pm 
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I've got to stop "kitbashing" and just work on what I got ... 'Nids, Tau, E:A, terrain, etc., etc., that are SIB (some since SM2!)!!!!? ...  :D

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