"Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community |
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community  Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:29 am |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
 |
 |
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
|
I don't think that I am quite as pessimistic as some of you guys are. ? ?
I agree that things have become a little petty at times, but I think that this is partly due to the stage that the game is now at. I don't post much, and don't get time to read all of the threads, but it seems that now that the general rules are coming to a close, people are moving away from game play and looking at the armies. And that is always going to cause old rivalries and 'my army should be better than yours' to resurface.
I have hopes that the Epic Vault boards will settle down after the newer forces are more developed and play-tested. But, I also feel that the number of people posting there will decrease slowly but gradually.
I will keep reading the E-A Forums, but I don't really have much to say anymore.
I don't know if this is good or bad. ?
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
dafrca
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:54 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
|
| Quote (primarch @ 27 2003 June,15:43) | I have a question for anyone who frequents the E-A forum: ?
WHY things have gotten to this point of hositility?
I don't frequent it that much, but I don't remember it being that hostile until recently.
Has it slowly built up or did it just recently explode? |
I can only speak for myself, but it seems to have built up over time. I think it is because the focus has changed.
When I first went on the focus was to test the rules. This included trying things no matter how odd they seemed because maybe Jervis wanted to see how the rules reacted to some change.
There was more a feeling of exploration. People did not "pooh-pooh" other's ideas so fast. In some cases we tried to break the game without breaking the rules. This allowed many pages of notes and thoughts being given to Jervis. This feeling of collaboration is going away. 
Now, it seems people are more worried about their "favorite" army and always assume that is where everyone else is coming from. They are quick to slam an idea or feedback if they think it weakens their favorites.
When I spoke up for an idea that was under discussion about the tyranids some people answered with the assumption I played Tyranids. Saying things like "you should try this with your army instead" or as one put it "if you were playing against them you would not feel that way." Funny thing is I do not own any bugs and I play one player who only plays bugs. I just thought it was a good idea.
Neal hit it on the head when he said that there is "factional squabbling as people jockey to complain that their favorite army is the one getting hosed and there seems to be a very confrontational tone". This does describe what I see. The whole tone has shifted as the members have fractionalized.
The "fan-boy" level has gone way up and this adds to the tone as well. The whole issue with the Fan Lists is a great example. The "fan-boy" did not like that this was not a place for them to worship, major confrontation followed.
Last, but by far not the least, the level of maturity seems to have dropped quite a bit. Please note I said maturity not age.
However, let it be said I am not blaming only the ?newer? members nor am I without some fault myself. This shift seems to have affected even some of the members I thought very highly of. It is as if the change is affecting all of us to some degree.
At times I have felt drawn into silly and childish arguments over nothing. I do not want to sound like I think I am above the changes. In fact, to be honest it, in part, how I felt a shift inside myself that has made me think about this very subject.
I want and crave the more mature collaborative environment. I like when we can disagree with each other with respect.
dafrca
_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
signius
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 4:56 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:23 pm
Posts: 873
Location: San Jose, California
|
I used to go to the E-A forum out of curiosity. However, after three days I gave up on it. I couldn't deal with it. That was the kind of forum that I have been trying to avoid and why I signed up here. ?
I must say that I love it here. 
People are good here, share great information and do not spend all of their time arguing about nothing.
I LOVE YOU ALL, MAN! (sob) ?
_________________
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:39 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
|
The whole thing sounds petty and immature too me. I'm glad I spent very little time on the E-A Playtesters Forum. ?
Regardless, I believe Jervis had an idea of what he wanted E-A to be and we'll never know how much he was influenced by the input...
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
dafrca
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 10:14 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
|
| Quote (Legion 4 @ 27 2003 June,21:39) | | Regardless, I believe Jervis had an idea what he wanted E-A to be and we'll never know how much he was influenced by the input ... |
Sad thing is, we do know that we were having some influence. I know for a fact he changed both rules and unit/formation stats because of feedback from the people on the forum.
He did seem to favor those people who offered logical arguments over those who just said "x is broken."
In a couple of cases, the people would say "something needs to change and here is how I think it should change" and Jervis would agree and change it.
That is why I am sad that some of the old time players did not trust Jervis enough to come and voice their views. I am also sad that the change in tone has caused others to stop participating.
Dafrca
_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
primarch
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:35 am |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
|
|
Hi!
Sounds like the army lists are causing a lot of "angst". Aren't full lists for those armies not fully covered in the initial release still a ways off to be released? Dont see why people should argue over things that still have a lot of time to be discussed.
That is why I am sad that some of the old time players did not trust Jervis enough to come and voice their views. I am also sad that the change in tone has caused others to stop participating.
|
Well, as I have said before, if Jervis wanted the opinion of "old timers" he did not go about it correctly. There was MUCH dialogue to be covered BEFORE epicA started it playtesting. Myself and many others just didn't feel compelled to participate when the starting point of the rules were "x" and no discussion over if that starting point was valid to begin with was ever offered.
I'm okay with Jervis having his "vision" and playtest from that point. But he should be okay with people ignoring it in favor of their own visions.
As I have said before, I think Jervis, and GW have decided on a certain way of marketing, producing and designing epic. Some will like it some will not.
You can't please everyone all the time, and I would try either.
Primarch
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:28 pm |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
|
|
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
|
I am also curious about whether there is anything that we can do 'help out.' It is all fine for us to be over here chatting about things, and we should have a non-GW place to chat about this.
Shouldn't we drop over to the EpicA boards and tell Jervis about this, start discussions on the key rules, suggest additional rules and extras for the EpicA Magazine when it finally resurfaces, etc.?
So, I would urge you to pop over there and just submit a single post to see how it does. (Of course, I would encourage you to keep posting here as much as possible as well. ? ?)
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
MaksimSmelchak
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:32 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:43 pm
Posts: 7258
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
|
|
Cyber-Shadow,
Shouldn't we drop over to the EpicA boards and tell Jervis about this, start discussions on the key rules, suggest additional rules and extras for the EpicA Magazine when it finally resurfaces, etc.? |
Go on in. I'll cover you... ?
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:45 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
I mentioned this to P/Geek before I think, I told him (and anyone else who cares) that he can forward any of my comments, opinions or rants to the E-A forum or Jervis. ?
I don't care if they even mention my name, you can say, "Some "goofball" on another site said..." ?
If my input may be of some value (I doubt it) - go for it...
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
dafrca
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:03 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:59 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
... or a visit from the =][= !!! 
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
primarch
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:55 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
|
|
Hi!
Cybershadow, I would do so if I thought that place was "stable" enough to handle the kind of "opinion" I could toss there. I think it would be used as fodder for a flame war, to be frank.
My comments and feelings are usually relayed through netepic to Jervis himself, so in in a round-a-bout way my opinion does make it "to the top". Part of my reticense of bothering with EpicA is that I already know what Jervis's views are, he's been pretty open about them, so since they dont "jive" with mine I keep a respectful distance. I'm afraid anything I have to say on the matter, no matter how eloquent, would be "bitching" and that isn't fair to the playtest board.
For better, or for worse, the epic community, as far as rules go, will be split, so I dont see the point in maing rules that presume unifying those group. It is NOT going to happen.
Of course, I rather be on a board like this where we cancelebrate are common enjoyment of epic, without concentrating on those pesky difference.
Primarch
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:01 pm |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
|
|
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
|
Primarch, I take your comments, and agree with them. In general, I am happy with the way that this board and the Vault work, with attitudes and approach, and I am obviously extremely pleased that there are a solid core of dedicated players who feel at home and comfortable here.
My only minor concern is that these boards will become similar to the way that Portent has grown recently. It has become the place where people congragate to complain and bitch about GW generally. This is counter-productive.
I would like to think that Jervis and others lurk here occassionally, because they feel that there are good, constructive points being raised, which could not happen on the GW official boards.
I found this, and while it made me laugh, it does have a serious point:
The Taken
I encourage people to speak their mind here, and to say what they feel without too many of the =][= turning up at your PC. I agree that the Vault boards have become slightly factional recently.
Also, to be honest, I dont think that I even want to see a 'unified' Epic community in that way. I like the fact that we are all brough together by a set of games, no matter which version we play or how we adapt them. I feel that this is closer to Jervis's view of the community, perhaps closer even than GW have achieved!
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:39 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
dafrca
|
Post subject: "Hey, Gandalf!" Discussion of Epic Community Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:41 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA
|
| Quote (Legion 4 @ 30 2003 June,08:39) | I know I don't always agree with G/W, Jervis, etc., but I do support them where it counts - I collect all the Epic Armies (past & present) + F/W Epic, so in the end, they get my support, I mean my $$$ !  |
I agree, I do not always like some of the changes they make etc. but I respect the fact they are a company and as such will "follow the money".
I do get tired of too much GW bashing and I agree with Cybershadow, I would not want to see this forum become too focused on that.
dafrca
_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59
Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com
|
|
| Top |
|
|
