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What's in a name?  Everything.
Legion 4
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:39 am 
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IIRC ... the original 40k box set called them ... Space Dwarves ... :)

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Otterman
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:59 am 
They probably call themselves 'us' or 'the people'.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:02 am 
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Or short, fat, bearded, biker dudes with an attitude ... :D

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Curis
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:39 pm 
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(semajnollissor @ Jun. 02 2008,21:03)
QUOTE
They were supposed to fill the thematic niche left after the Squats got deleted - basically GW taking a do-over. The Demiurg were not just the Squats with a new name.

Spot on!  They're a race that fulfill the same dwarven archetype, and are completely separate.  Confusing Squats and Demiurg as interchangeable is like putting Samurai Warriors in an Eastern Steppe Nomads army on account of their eyes.

I'm personally for Squats and the equally-canon Space Dwarves.  No amount of "You've got Squats?  Better see a doctor!" will dissuade me.

Alternatively, you can sidestep the entire matter by writing the army list without reference to the race, just where it came from.  "Golgothan VIIth" "Gorunzad Defence Guild" or even "Thurgrimm's Stronghold".  They are Squats, only the list doesn't explicitly make mention of it (much like the Armageddon Steel Legion list makes no mention of the fact they're humans).*

*  Okay, they're not all humans, some are abhumans, but you get my point.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:41 pm 
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I got a bunch of G/W Epic Squats and some E/W Khazari ... They look enough alike as Vulcans & Romulans ... you can clearly see the linage. For gaming purposes you can call them "Auxiliaries" like the Roman's did. For "allies" that fought along side the Legions. And designate them something like the VIth Loki Miltia or the IIIrd Varagyan Cohort, etc. And use them like IG along side IG ...

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epilgrim
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:21 pm 
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Given the number of people on these forums who devote time and effort to develop divergent lists to suit themes that are appealing or were not explored by GW/SG, I am truly surprised at the resistance to an alternative view of the Squats and their origins.

Additionally, GW has not elected to do anything with the minimal references they have made so far.

To be honest Andy and Jervis were more charitable when they read it. It did not fit their conceptual work, but they at least complimented the effort and gave me permission to use it with no objections.

Currently, I am trying to work with anyone interested to reconcile to two exisiting lists with no regard to the fictional elements. Hopefully you can all see your way clear to contribute to keeping them viable in EA.




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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:02 pm 
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(epilgrim @ Jun. 03 2008,15:21)
QUOTE
Given the number of people on these forums who devote time and effort to develop divergent lists to suit themes that are appealing or were not explored by GW/SG, I am truly surprised at the resistance to an alternative view of the Squats and their origins.

I guess my problem is I don't see a need for a complete revision of Squat fluff. As for their origins, I've always viewed Squats to be archetypal fantasy Dwarfs, a race of craftsmen, miners, builders, etc., projected into the future. That is, I've never really considered them to be abhumans that were changed over time because of living on high gravity planets. Rather, I view them as a completely separate race, that has close trade ties with the Imperium.

If you want to have a race of Dwarf-like creatures (Demiurg) that are affiliated with the Tau, I have no problems with that. I welcome variety in army lists. However, it's not my view of what Squats/Space Dwarfs are.

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epilgrim
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:29 pm 
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Did you read the stuff I wrote? It doesn't sound like it...

The story is written from their perspective, in which they no longer see themselves as human or part of the Imperium.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:35 pm 
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(epilgrim @ Jun. 03 2008,16:29)
QUOTE
Did you read the stuff I wrote? It doesn't sound like it...

The story is written from their perspective, in which they no longer see themselves as human or part of the Imperium.

Where can I find it? In the Demiurg list?

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epilgrim
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:07 pm 
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It should be in the army files on the wikiwar page set up by Hena (I think).

If you can't find it email me at

epilgrim@optonline.net

I will happily send it to you tonight.

try this link too

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/wiki....y+Lists




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epilgrim
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:00 am 
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as for what's in a name check on this definition from wikipedia:

Demiurge the Latinized form of Gk. demiourgos, lit. "public or skilled worker" (from demos "common people" + ergos "work")[1] and hence a "maker", "artisan" or "craftsman". In later philosophical and religious language it became a term for a creator deity, responsible for the creation of the physical universe.

there are many other definitions along similar interpretations, many of which are religious, but all of them have meanings that trace to the concepts of artisans, craftsmen, and those that fashion the material world, so is is a logical flash forward to a dwarven archtype. It's a great name.




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Ginger
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:24 pm 
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You could always go with the ancient language theme and use "Vegrandi Iratus"

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Moscovian
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Vegrandi all by itself doesn't sound bad, although that might have an entirely different meaning :).  My thinking is the list can still be Squats, but the background would have the Squats referring to themselves as "Vegrandi" or whatever.

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: What's in a name?  Everything.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:27 pm 
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If you wanted to get all hard sci-fi for a moment you could say that the Demiurge are/were Squats that used forbidden genetic engineering techniques to adapt themselves to a life in space and thus broke away from the mainstream Squat worlds.

Provide a sort of continuity to the two races although it sure wouldn't be anything remotely approaching GW approved canon.

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