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just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad

 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:55 pm 
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(Yersinia Pestis @ May 19 2008,15:47)
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And all for 300 pounds.  Now I have no idea what the heck NetEpic is, but there is no excuse for an 8000 pound army, unless you want a full chapter, with complete vehicle support, air support, drop pods, Thunderhawks, attached Titans, and EVERY model is FW.

NetEpic is a fan based version of Epic, based on the SM2/TL rules.

Many people have collected/are in the process of collecting an entire Space Marine chapter for epic. Duz has determined that the cost for an entire chapter in 40k would cost ~?8,000.

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:03 pm 
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that is nearly one battle company there is 4 of them and 2 tactiacal consisting of 90 tactical marines and and 5 command and 10 rhinos 1 assault company 90 assult marines an 5 command 10 rhinos 1 divister company with 18 5 man divaster squats and the usual command and 10 rhinos and 1 scout company with 90 scout troops and command and then the fist company its either 60 terminators and 5 terminator command plus 7 landraders or 90 veteran marines plus command and 10 rhinos.

do the math

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:46 pm 
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nowhere near 8,000 pounds. devastators are cheaper than ever now, with each box set able to fill two squads. Veterans need not be any special models, simply a white helmet and bam, you're set. So let's look at this, and some future releases, shall we?

 for 3000 pounds you get 10 commanders, 10 sets of command squad guys, that includes 10 company champions, 10 apothecaries, 10 standard bearers, and 20 veteran marines, as designated by special bolters and other bits.  
 Also in there is 600 space marines, all in 10 man squads, each 10 man squad with the option for many, many special weapons from the plasma gun to rocket launchers, and multi-meltas ahoy!  Also, with the massive number of bits left in the command and commander sprues, you have even more options, as the commander comes with enough bits to fill out a squad.
 Next is the Assault squads. 200 of these buggers, and again, lots of extra bits.  200 should be enough for the companies that need it, and any extras can be bought by purchasing the 10-pack assault pack set for 5 pounds.
 Devastators will give you 200 marines, but wait! with the new plastics you can, in all actuality give 500 marines devastator weaponry, which is enough to fill out EVERY tactical squad you have.  That, asn the devastator squad comes with so many bits you can continue to fill out your first company even more, servo skills, banners, and goodies for everyone.  
 You'd also get 10 razorbacks and 80 rhinos.  Land raiders are not taken by every chapter, and if you are using the create-a-chapter rules, this alone can get you completely through a chapter.  Lets say you want terminators and scouts though.  With Apocalypse Reload coming out, we have several more options.  
What options you may ask? Well for 100 pounds you can have 35 terminators as well as a terminator commander. that bumps it up to 3100 pounds.  need scouts? wait for the scout force, it'll bump you up by almost 150 more but it will give you the 10th company worth of scouts.
so sure, you're up to 3,250 pounds, and you have no land raiders nor landspeeders.  the rumour mill hints at a apocalypse set with nothing but vehicles coming out rather soon.  
 There's also the new introductory box set, it comes with 20 marines, 10 terminators, a dreadnought, and a commander for 70 bucks.  Oh, and over 30 ork models including a deffkopta.  Sure, it's 45 pounds, but if you split it with a friend, it's an amazing deal.  the only catch is it's all sculpted with ultramarines icons and whatnot.  oh well.

 Also remember, epic is nice and tiny, things go fast.  When you have 5000 points in 40k, it;s gonna be a game that lasts for a day at the least, if not stretched out through several.  It's apples and oranges, man.  don't even try.





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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:03 pm 
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yes but the whole point of apocalypse is to play epic sized games in w40k (company sized battles(multiple company))

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:08 pm 
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and that idea would bankrupt most people if you collect in W40K just take a look at your epic force and take and make a all round 10000 point army (not unusual for epic) and try to make a price list for a similar force in W40K (not point but the real price) and then get sick at the notion

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:11 pm 
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epic and 40k cannot be compared.  Apocalypse has been around for years, if not over a decade.  Since the 90's players have had large enough forces to play 3000+ games, but until now all there has been is house rules.  Apocalypse is less about epic and more about making streamlined and coherent, not to mention consistent rules for large games.  Hence the new templates, firing patterns, formations, ect.  Oh, that, and Apocalypse is not geared torwards chapter on chapter battle.  3000 points is where Apocalypse starts, and that ain't much.  Hell, 3000 points is nothing, I have that much in Termagants and Genestealers alone.




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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:41 am 
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Never have been a fan of G/W's 40K, rules ... that's one of the reasons I don't play it ... And collect Epic, and the Epic rules IMO, always needed work. But I've "Epicing" since '90  so that says something.  And another reason I don't like 40K is a lot of the time the figures are over-the -top silly ... I think 40K Apocalypse is a marketing ploy to sell their over priced larger scale minis. The did a similiar thing with SM2. They sold 3 armies per box. If you wanted to buy SM Infantry and Tanks, they were in the same box set along with Eldar and Orks. But that's my opinion ! :;):

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:02 pm 
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Oh, no denying it's a ploy to sell more, hence a lot of the huge box sets that most people would never buy.  But there are also rules for large games, using point values that many players have already. 3000 points isn't that much, and for players that already have specific units, you get a hell of a bonus.  Things like 2 whirlwinds and a land speeder, or 6 squads of ork boyz, ect, ect. if that makes sense.

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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:21 pm 
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I don't know... I think Apocalypse was/is more than that. While Epic always tried to differentiate between tournament play and scenario play, there has never really been that distinction in 40K. To be fair, in my experience tournament play is the norm for Epic too. I certainly don't usually think to do anything but the Tournament Scenario...

Apocalypse introduced a new concept and mindset to much of the 40K community. After all, if I arrange a 1,500 game of 40K it should be fairly balanced (how balanced is another matter) and I'd be expecting a normal "tournament style" game. But if I arrange an "Apocalypse" game then my opponent knows to leave his tournament list at home and break out the largest monstrosity he can find - and he will know to expect the unexpected as far as my army is concerned!

Maybe it was a money-making ploy - but then is releasing new models (the bounders). The reason it was successful was because it gave a GW-sanctioned carte blanche to throw away the force organisation chart - and, stupid as it sounds, it was needed. Most 40K players, including me, have gotten so involved around building their armies the same way that Apocalypse was a fresh breath of air, a reminder of rogue trader days and an excuse to build 40K-scale titans!






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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:39 pm 
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BTW, I think that if you had to buy an entire SM chapter for epic at retail price from GW, it would run about $1500-$1600. Off ebay, it would be considerably less. I figured:

1 character blister
5 infantry boxes (440 Tacticals, 20 Vets, 140 Devs, 200 Asslts)
5 bike blisters (60 bikes, 5 attack bikes)
4 speeder blisters (20 LSs)
3 scout blisters (120 scouts)
2 termie blisters (80 termies)
3 land raider blisters (12 LRs)
10 rhino blisters (60 rhinos)
10 razorback blisters (40 razorbacks)
6 whirlwind/hunter blisters (16 WW, 8 hunters)
5 pred blisters (20 preds)
2 vindie blisters (8 vindies)
10 Thawks
3 landing craft
10 drop pod blisters (20 DPs, for the sake of completeness)

It all depends on how many of each vehicle you think a chapter would have in stock. My list would give too many scouts and asslts, and not enough attack bikes, but close enough. Adding in a SM fleet would run another $200-$300 for around 3 barges, 10 strike cruisers, and assorted escorts.

The WH40k 3rd Ed SM codex actually had a list of the entire Ultramarine inventory, so if you have one of those handy, you can see what a codex marine chapter might have. I tend to think that list is a bit light on vehicles, but that's just me.


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 Post subject: just realised that the W40K apocalypse is mad
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:13 am 
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Well ... it must work on a number of levels, both gaming & money making ! :;):

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