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40K 5th edition
Lextar
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:34 pm 
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Not sure if this the right place, but wondering about this new 5th edition 40K rule book... didn't they just recently release a new edition? OK... it may be a year or a bit more ago, but it does seem quite recent.

And considering they brought out Apocalypse, doesnt that mean they will need to adjust that rule book for the 5 edition?
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Dave
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:39 pm 
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4th edition came out in 2004 I believe, 6 years after 3rd. 5th only waited 4 years but again it's not that different from the previous edition. It's backwards compatible again and introduces new rules in mechanics for every army so reworking Apocalypse isn't needed.

If they changed the activation system to that of Epic I'd consider playing it, if only to use those models I have.

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Mephiston
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:03 pm 
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Could I then suggest that you check out Stargrunt. Sci Fi skirmish rules without IGOUGO turn sequence.

Its a free download from GZG too.
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Dave
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:27 pm 
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Oh I've got all the GZG games. I was speaking with regards to finding people to play.  The 40k pool is much greater than the EA pool which is much greater than the SGII pool.

I met one person who played GZG games, and he moved to Oregon a month after I met him. :glare:




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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:34 pm 
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There's actually quite a few changes to the rules, at least if the rumors are to be believed.  

The most recent White Dwarf confirmed the use of True Line of Sight (if you can put a laser pointer from the head of one mini to another mini, you can take a shot at him).  

There have also been rumors about a massive increase in cover saves (further nerfing any shooting army), which leads to an increase in the potential of CC-heavy armies.  So much for playing Tau very often.

It's still IGOUGO, though.

Without having seen the rulebook, I'm definitely NOT sold on the new edition.  It sounds like they're trying to make the same rule mechanics work for everything from a fireteam/squad skirmish up to reinforced companies, maybe even rump battalions of troops.  That's just a BAD idea.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: 40K 5th edition
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:21 pm 
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Eh, it definately looks like they're an improvement on the previous set. There are still some major failings in my eyes, but I think overall it will be a better game for it. In general, they've tried to take the "game tactics" out (such as which model dies in a unit) and replace it with "actual tactics," which is certainly to be lauded although I feel they've failed to push the envelope.

Things I like
  • Troops will be able to "run" - i.e. march or double - if they don't shoot, making (in theory) armies more maneuverable
  • Vehicles are tougher in general but more vulnerable to infantry assault
  • True LOS will do away with some of the abstracted silliness
  • Consolidation changes mean that combat units and uber-characters can't roll up a flank unsupported
  • Combat is more brutal and less gamey

    Things I don't
  • Vehicle rules are a bit of a step backward. Vehicles should be more mobile, not less!
  • They STILL haven't fixed the thing about not being able to fire ordinance weapons and other weapons
  • The vehicle defensive weapon rules are still worthless, and don't allow tanks to use firefight weapons to keep infantry away
  • Mechanics like "run" are a bit too random to be really tactical
  • The vagaries of the IGOUGO system mean that decisive charges are a bad thing to do
  • Kill points system is going to mean the army list construction stage is going to be even more important - a good general is not necessarily going to be able to win with a bad list, and that's going to be exacerbated.
  • Casualty removal has become rather micro-managed, with wounds needing to be allocated to individual models within a squad.





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    Mephiston
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:03 pm 
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    40K - the skirmish game trying to break out of the mass combat marketing. :)
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    The_Real_Chris
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:04 am 
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    (Lord Inquisitor @ Jun. 17 2008,22:21)
    QUOTE
  • Troops will be able to "run" - i.e. march or double - if they don't shoot, making (in theory) armies more maneuverable

    • Wow, back to second edition :)

    IGOUGO


    Head thuds again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again etc.

    Why would anyone in the 21st century wish to play I GO U GO? It is duller than extra matt varnish.

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    Chaplain Leviticus
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:08 am 
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    40K5 has turned my attention to FOW.

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    CyberShadow
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:55 am 
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    Firstly, the D6G podcast has about two hours going over the new rules, and the guys know their stuff:

    http://www.thed6generation.com/index.php?post_id=349172

    Many of the later 40K books have actually been written with fifth edition in mind, so there should not be a huge issue about transferring to the new system.

    I dont like the idea of 'true LOS' at all. There has to be some abstraction, and I am sure that this will just lead to some strange situations of shooting 'between the Dreadnoughts legs, through the building window and between the spikes on the Dark Eldar to get that guys raised right hand'.  :p

    I must be the only person who actually likes IGOUGO. I think that it can be a superior system if you have some mechanism for 'overwatch'.

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    blackhorizon
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:01 am 
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    IGOUGO:
    Nothing wrong with it as Cybershadow states.

    Even Epic is still a IGOUGO system.




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    Evil and Chaos
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:11 am 
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    Casualty removal has become rather micro-managed, with wounds needing to be allocated to individual models within a squad.


    40k 5th's Casualty removal is basically the same as Epic's casualty removal system, except instead of allocated wounds from front-to-back, the defending player allocates wounds as he likes, until he's allocated one wound to each member of the squad and can then start again from the beginning of the squad.

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    alansa
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:01 pm 
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    (blackhorizon @ Jun. 18 2008,11:01)
    QUOTE
    IGOUGO:
    Nothing wrong with it as Cybershadow states.

    Even Epic is still a IGOUGO system.

    No,

    40K is:
    TurnStarts
    IGOUGO
    TurnEnds

    epic is:
    TurnStarts
    IgoUgoIgoUgoIgoIGoagainUgoUgoagain
    Turn Ends

    Chris is right IGOUGO is boring. I've even considered converting BFG to something like the epic turn system.

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    Chaplain Leviticus
     Post subject: 40K 5th edition
    PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:37 pm 
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    I prefer Epic-like turn sequence with order counters; we've adapted it to 40K and plays very well and changes the dynamic of play.  I just tire of the endless re-releasing of the same thing over and over by GW.  Not to mention the blah genericness they have embarked upon.  A modifier to a dice roll here and there would not hurt either... I went to grade school and can add and subtract!

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