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Epic players, do we need games workshop?

samuelk2

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:18 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:16 pm
Posts: 30
Location: letchworth,hertfordshire,england

as games workshop will propbaly pull the plug on epic soon(i not saying they will, but look at the amount of minatures their making for epic! basically none).

so my question is do we need games workshop or can we forage out on our own with ew and drm or do people prefer games workshops models?

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epic; a game where infantry dont really matter only massive titans

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Dwarf Supreme

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:35 pm

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Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm
Posts: 11147
Location: Canton, CT, USA

It would be nice to have "official" GW support for the sake of recruiting new players and minis, but I'm personally way beyond needing it. There are enough companies right now producing reasonable proxies. I think we can do just fine without GW.

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Otterman

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:11 pm

The question sort of answers itself. It doesn't matter if we need, or don't need, GW, because either way, we don't get them.

BTW, I like your proxy tank graphic.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:12 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Samuel, your sentiments have been echoed on many other thread across many forums. The love-hate relationship the fans seem to have with GW intrigues me since if it was any other product (like a computer, a stereo, whatever) there wouldn't be any discussion on it. We would have bad mouthed them and moved on and never bought from that company/manufacturer again.

I think the problem is everybody loves what GW could be but hates what GW is. I think we can and in many cases are getting along fine without them. But do the fans want to get along without them? I think even the die hard haters of GW don't want to give up on the company and would come back to GW if they made half an effort to please their customer base. The rest of us continue to go back to the hand that beats us because we're convinced the next time they'll have a doggie biscuit.

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yorkie

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:29 pm

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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Catterick UK

in a word "no" (for me anyway)

There are many other companies making 6mm scifi figs of a comparable and in some cases better quality, and making them affordable.

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nealhunt

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:48 pm

Purestrain

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

It would be nice to have "official" GW support for the sake of recruiting new players and minis, but I'm personally way beyond needing it.

This is pretty much the size of it in my book. GW support is invaluable if you want to play with a variety of people. To that extent, I find it highly desirable.

Aside from that specific goal/desire, it really doesn't matter as it's not needed.

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netepic

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:22 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 4:26 pm
Posts: 7016
Location: Southfields, London, England

Sci-Fi Commander

Features army lists for use with GW minis - and of course EW

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BlackLegion

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:31 pm

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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
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Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe

I hate proxies.

Is this enough for an answer?

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semajnollissor

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:48 pm

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Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm
Posts: 1673
Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA

Also, they own the IP, so that's a "yes" from a practical stand point.

Some players of Epic play because of its scale (6mm) and the rule set (E:A or NetEpic or whatever). But others play because of the setting (40k universe) and the miniature style (very specific cartoony proportions).

For people focused on scale or rule set, GW is not that important. For people focused on setting or matching style, then GW is important. Some people don't care if their Space Marines and their jumbo-guns are facing down a bunch of Palapatine's storm troopers backed up by true-to-scale At-ATs. Others would find that distasteful.

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alansa

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:15 pm

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Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: surrey uk

If you ask "6mm players do we need GW?" then the answer is no.

But without GW epic will virtually cease to exist - as it did in the dark ages after Epic 40k. If epic players are content with a new dark age, then the answer to the question is no - we don't need them.

Personally I find the current situation perhaps not as good as it could be, far better than it used to be. There is no fan group in existance who could keep the game at the current level, or increase it - save for rules development

We do get official support from GW in the most important respect - they still make the minis and host the rules. This is the pillar that upholds the entire game.

OK so development has ceased, promotion is word-of-mouth only. sales are 'direct only'

But if the GW 'pillar' is removed this game will wither and die - regardless of proxies by other manufacturers, recycling of minis on ebay.

Small conclaves may continue to play for a while perhaps for a long time - but there will be next to no new people.

People may move over to other 6mm sci-fi wargames and some might even use adapted versions of the epic rules. For that that wouldn't count. I love epic for many factors, its rules yes but also the pseudo-historic background, the imigary, the minis.

I couldn't really give a hoot about any other sci-fi game, certainly not star-wars which I find too childish to stomach. Though if somebody did a War of the Worlds game (and by that I mean Jeff Wayne's War of the worlds) I might be interested ?

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Niblebitzer

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:14 pm

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Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:00 am
Posts: 154
Location: Kirkkonummi, Finland

I say yes.

We need GW to feed us with fluff and figs. Those go on with their hands tied together. Strongly. We can support existing rules with updates and extra stuff but wo prior those are just plain rules. Without gothic world of Warhammer and superheroes in it we would have just plain game system. Game system without attracting fluff isnt going to carry far. It has been seen numerous times.

Space marine isnt just any space trooper produced by somy company. It is the Space Marine produced by Games Workshop. Images from 40k and fluff cannot be waved off just by stating that this 6mm michelin-man is A Space Marine.

Yes, it is unfortunate that GW dont support us as much as we wish, but as long as they support us on any level, they are with us. You can say whatever you like, but they dont have to keep those figs for sale. They dont have to give us anything. Still they do. They havent given up yet and we shouldt do that either. If we give up, they will too.

Sure, most of us wont need figs as much as starting players do, but that doesnt mean that figs nor rules shouldnt be available. For example me and my brother have allready collected 20k+ points of each of space marines, eldars and orcs and ig and chaos arent much behind. There are races that arent that popular but I have something to paint for next 10 years allready and with those amounts of toys we can field almost anything we can imagine wo needing new ones.

_Still_ I need GW for this, even if its just fluff to fight those games. I need GW to make me feel that I still need more figs even thou I dont. Maybe I should seek aid, but hey, I am not alone here.

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Legion 4

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:17 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA

I've said this many, many times before ... And I've been collecting Epic since '90 ... NO ... 1. I'm not that crazy about the G/W Fluff(a bit silly IMO) 2. The E:A rules are the best yet, but still could use a good amount of "adjustment", IMO. 3) With DRM and E/W (alphabetical order, I like both lines very much), as well as GZG, CH, etc., there is more than enough 6mm Sci-fi models for the Epic "fluff", IMO ... 4) The DRM and E/W rules look very promising, IMO ... Note, I have most (like 98%) of what G/W has made for Epic, since '90. Including 10+ Epic Forces - SMs, Traitor SMs, IG, Ork/Feral Orks, Eldar, Chaos/Cultist, SQUATs(gone from G/W fluff), 'Nids, F/W Tau & Kroot, and TL/AM ... And I have 1 or 2 packs of everything DRM and E/W makes, so far ... and will get more.

So as always - DWWFY ...

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Mark_Logue

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:29 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 7:31 am
Posts: 1099
Location: Australia

I think we need GW to keep the game alive.

I started playing this game because of the cool imagery and fluff that comes along with the 40K universe. I continue to play it because its a great game. I would have never started playing it just because its the great game it is. Its everything else that GW has created that drew me In and I am sure that it is the same for many other players. If GW stops selling anything I think its going to be one hard slog to get anyone interested in the game.

While I have multiple armies and am always going to have people to play against it would be nice to be able to game against new players. If you do show someone the game and they get interested it would be nice if they could jump online and order an army.

So while I don't need any more miniatures, have copies of all the rules and don't need anything new from GW, don't need any development from them (although releasing the plastic nid sprue again would be mighty mighty nice) I need them to keep doing what they are doing now which is working out just perfect for me.

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Epic- A version of the game with even smaller models that is often dominated by titans which are vehicles the size of a large building and have the ability to pwn...everything. There is also infantry, whose only function in Epic is to provide valuable traction to Titans walking across snowy paths.

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samuelk2

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:53 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:16 pm
Posts: 30
Location: letchworth,hertfordshire,england

so although we could survive without games workshop epic would basically die out.And the community would get smaller and smaller every year, i for one like the games workshop fluff and i would prefer to see more minatures with the same style as the rest of the range, as for me i prefer games workshops models to ER and DRM

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epic; a game where infantry dont really matter only massive titans

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Legion 4

Post subject: Epic players, do we need games workshop?

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:30 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA

We will keep Epic alive here, I've said that many times before. We pretty much are doing that now. I guess, since I have almost the stuff G/W-F/W has made for Epic/AI (save for Metal Imp. and Eldar Knights and the Banelord - Don't like'm !

), I guess I don't need any more models either. Considering the fact that I have a lot still to paint too ! But I like DRM and EW and I know their "creators" fairly well. And again, the G/W "fluff" really does not work for me. I prefer the Hammer's Slammers fluff, among others, and would love to have "official" O/C 6mm Slammer AFVs. So again we all must do what works for our own individual tastes. But I won't be surprised if 5 years from now, G/W & F/W's support of Epic is a memory ... Regardless of how we feel ... And I don't think I'm going to see O/C make 6mm Slammers any time soon, either ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

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