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Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...

 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:17 am 
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Hello! :) ?Well, since the middle of last week my fiancee's 9 year-old son had been asking if we can have a game. ?Having spent about 7 months languishing in a storage box, last week he finally decided to get out his Marines (both Epic & 40k versions) and paint some more of them.

So Saturday I decided to put terrain building to one side and have a battle. ?'What do you want to play? Epic or 40k' I asked him. ?'40k', he replies. ?'I'll have to use my Tyranid army then...' I state, knowing that he won't play against them (I think I've built up the abilities of the Carnifex too well, to the extend he says he'll never play against my 40k 'Nids :laugh:). ?'Okay, we'll play Epic then' he concedes.

This would be our second game of Epic, my having set up a small (1,500 per side) game about 7-8 months ago. ?I decided to let him use a mix of his own Space Marines (the ones he's finished painting) and my own Iron Hands Marines; I used Guard. ?I totted up what he had, and worked out two 2,900 point armies.

So we started playing, at 1pm.

Come 6pm, we still hadn't finished turn 3. ???? ?:glare:

Now, I was trying to explain the rules as I went, and it didn't help that, being a 9 year-old boy, my fiancee's son got bored and easily distracted when I was taking my turns.

But by the time I was finished, I was struck by how tired I was and how much of a headache I had - just from playing Epic for 4-5 hours!

That evening I went up to bed, my fiancee saw the look on my face and asked 'what's the matter?' ?'Oh, I've just got a head-ache, that's all', I replied.

Should playing Epic really have this effect on me, I pondered?

Anyway, we finished the game yesterday, and my fiancee's son won (probably a good thing, he's at that age where if he didn't he probably wouldn't want to play ever again!

And that's the second lesson: either, I am really, really bad at playing Epic - or I need to paint some more stuff for my Guard army. ?The game ended with the Marines pretty much engulfing the Guard, with only 3 of their formations destroyed and one broken. ?The guard, on the otherhand, only had one intact formation, and two other formations not broken.

I know I'm not the greatest Epic player, but I've been reflecting on this game and realise I need to paint some more Guard stuff to make that army better. ?I used:

- Supreme Commander formation
- Infantry company, w/Ogryns & Snipers
- Tank Company
- Sentinels
- Rough Riders
- Artillery Battery
- Hydra Detachment
- 2 Thunderbolt squadrons
- Warhound Titan

The Marines had:

- 2 Tactical Detachments (1 w/Supreme Commander, both with Hunters)
- Devestators w/Razorbacks
- Assault Marines w/Captain
- Terminators w/Captain
- Predators
- Land Raiders
- Whirlwinds w/Hunter
- Thunderhawk

I think I'd have been better taking more Infantry/Mech infantry companies, for more resiliance, than all the little formations which ended up being cannon fodder, basically.

So that was my weekend of Epic gaming! ?It was nice to have a game, and to 'christen' some of the terrain I've been building :D - but, by heck, Epic doesn't half give me a headache!






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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:43 am 
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Fact is, 40k is easier to teach to kids than Epic.

Sorry. :D

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:53 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 16 2007,10:43)
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Fact is, 40k is easier to teach to kids than Epic.

Sorry. :D

Ha! :laugh:  I think you're partly right.  It's slightly more complicated 'cause you're giving formations orders; I had to keep reminding my fiancee's son that once he's given a formation an order, he couldn't use them again till the next turn...

I tried to keep it simple by summarising the orders as basically being a combination of moving and shooting; I think he got the gist of that.

I think the 'fluid' style of play of Epic (you know, the 'I go you go' thing :;): ) is better suited to kids' attention spans than the 40k turn sequnce- last time I went through a game of 40k between him and his sister they kept wondering off during each others goes... :confuse:


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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:56 am 
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Ugh I hate playing with my bro and sis at 40k or Epic..they come to me and are alle xcited "lets play warhammer come on come on" then i set it all out for them on the big table in the living room. Rush to my room to get my dice and other bits and bobs...and by the time im bck they're watching a movie and dont want to play. I did however spend 2 hours setting up so i played by myself...and i lost againts my own 2 Imperator and 2 Warmongers, even though the Space Marine armada (which i had decided was mine) was equal in points and most likely able to take out the advancing guard army had my thunderhawks not been blown out by turn 2...all 5 of them!!!!

Oh god....i hate kids :p

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:54 am 
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Dont confuse playing a game of Epic (or anything) with teaching the game. When you teach, you are concentrating for hours, without stop. That is exhausting. Playing a game against someone who knows the rules speeds things up and keeps things more interesting, allows you to take breaks and let your concentration down, and have more fun with the game. That is when the job becomes fun.

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:13 pm 
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Ah - an EPIC hangover, I know how you feel. In general it is just when teaching the game or with a massive amount of points :). It is from concentrating for so long, best way to avoid it is a mid game pizza break, or by adding alcohol to the mix (which obviously you can't do with the kids). Though the only reason alcohol helps is that it lowers your concentration, which doesn't help your game plan.

Actually just reading the above comments as I type this and realise that CS is saying pretty much the same thing - so I second him!

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:45 pm 
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Teaching any game is always very different to just playing it.

It was the same for me at the weekend with Regards to the DRM Rules set. We were doing a Demo day up in Milton Keynes & it was knackering. I love the game as we currently have it & will be playing a game again tonight at my local club, but teaching guys who were mostly new to 6mm & answering a solid stream of questions realy takes it out of you!

So I would suggest that Its not a reflection so much onthe game itself, just the manner in which you were playing it. :D

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:46 pm 
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I get the same headache teaching my younger brother to play.  Except he's 21.  It's definatelly the teaching thing, mixed with the time everything takes.  

(Despite the small pts you used), you really need to play very small games until the players can play most of the rules quickly.  It'll seem dramatic enough, especially since each loss will matter alot more, and you're opponant doen't really know what's going on yet.  Of course it won't stop little kids wandering off, but at least you might fit a game into the interval.

edit: ooo! cheesy-line oppotunity!
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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:54 pm 
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9 year is too young for epic.

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:19 pm 
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(blackhorizon @ Jul. 16 2007,12:54)
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9 year is too young for epic.

I'm not so sure of that... maybe too young for playing full Tournament games, but the training scenarios would be great for that age.

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 3:57 pm 
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My littlest bro asked to play SM2 with me years back... we played a couple of simplified games and then he forgot about wargaming for years...

Later on, he found my stuff packed away, and now he plays warhammer, heh. :)

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:28 pm 
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(Chroma @ Jul. 16 2007,16:19)
QUOTE

(blackhorizon @ Jul. 16 2007,12:54)
QUOTE
9 year is too young for epic.

I'm not so sure of that... maybe too young for playing full Tournament games, but the training scenarios would be great for that age.

I think there's truth in both statements; I think I should have played a smaller (1,500 points-ish) game with him; but he was desperate to use all the units he could (I actually had to dissuade him from using both HIS and MY armies!), so it was a bit of a concession.

He hasn't been put off - he was asking today if we could have another game...  :blues:  :;):  :D

Shame he's been nagging me for more Marines for his 40k army though...  :confuse:  :laugh:


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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:36 pm 
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I play epic with my fiancee's boys aged 9 and 13 or run the games while they play each other.

3000 pts are usally played over a two days with huge breaks -

ADD (attention deficit disorder!) is a much of a factor but I think epic's turn sequence is a huge help in this area since their go is no half an hour away!

Sometimes (especially with the eldest ofr some reason) we don't get to 3 rounds due to him believing he's not doing well (this is often not the case - but setbacks can put him off)

does p*** me offsometimes when I go through all the trouble of getting allll the stuff out only to have to put it away again almost straight away.

While they don't know all the rules off by heart - they do know what their doing.

Playing wargames with kids is certainly different, and much harder work, than playing with adults - but it's always like that with kids - and the rewards are different (i.e. they have a great time, being the reward)

I only wish I had more time to play with them - I recently bought a second hand copy of Space Crusade precisely because it's quicker to get out - play - put away again.

While GW business may be based upon people buying and using huge numbers of figs (including terrain). There is something to be said for simple board games!

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:43 pm 
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Seems to me it's more a case of the situation and your participant than the game itself.

Just learned Epic this past weekend and it's hard for me to think that the game itself is causing your pain.

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 Post subject: Weekend discovery: Epic makes me grumpy...
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:15 am 
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Like your handle Melta.

Welcome aboard

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