Tactical Command
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Recasts!
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=7862		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  javelin98 [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
I have a chance to buy a small Eldar force and a respectable Space Marine force from a guy, but I'm troubled.  Right on his webpage, he states:

*Some of the figures and vehicles have been cast in typesetter's lead from molds I have made from originals.


Wha-hey?  He admits to recasting?  And yet he won't sell any of the stuff separately;  it's all one lot or bugger off.

So... I don't want to support anyone recasting (even if it is OOP stuff), but I do want to buy the original stuff he's got in his inventory.  I know he won't parcel it out;  should I offer a lower price that would reflect the worth of only the legit products?  Or do I just wash my hands of it altogether?

What to do, what to do...
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Take a backup of the page, prove it to him, then demand he sell you at a lower price or you'll report him.









What?
Author:  Warmaster Nice [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Depends if it's curentl
ly available minis. Report him to GW is the minis can be bought from the GW online store. If it's long OOP the I don't really have much of a problem with it as long as the  quality is good.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:55 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
As long as the quality is good, as W/N says, go for it, since some of the stuff is original ... but haggle for a lower price !
Author:  gary_clark1946 [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
I voted #3 but modify it to let me buy it at a low price. :)
...if it is oop stuff any way

Wolf1
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
IF the recasts are from long-OOP stuff, and he no longer has the originals that he copied (ie, the originals are included in the deal), buy at the price the legit stuff is worth (since you technically can't even trade for recasts of copyrighted material).  You can't really claim ignorance, but you can claim that you didn't buy them and you did buy the originals.  Fair use/backup copies should then cover you, and if he didn't destroy the molds, he's breaking the law.

If the recasts are of current-production stuff, fry him.  Report him to GW, and let them sort it out.

It's not that I like GW, it's that recasters are one of the factors that increase the costs for everyone, never mind the fact that what the recaster are doing is illegal.
Author:  primarch [ Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:54 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!

(Warmaster Nice @ Nov. 03 2006,20:49)
QUOTE
Depends if it's curentl
ly available minis. Report him to GW is the minis can be bought from the GW online store. If it's long OOP the I don't really have much of a problem with it as long as the  quality is good.

Hi!

Yup, my sentiment too.

Primarch
Author:  Kotrin [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Sorry to break the consensus but... there are no valid "current miniatures" "personal use only" or "i'm not making any profit" arguments.

Recasts are illegal, period.

Now, it's up to you to denounce the matter (that's one of the few cases where GW will be very happy to hear from a customer), forget about it, or join.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Recasts!

(primarch @ Nov. 04 2006,20:54)
QUOTE

(Warmaster Nice @ Nov. 03 2006,20:49)
QUOTE
Depends if it's curentl
ly available minis. Report him to GW is the minis can be bought from the GW online store. If it's long OOP the I don't really have much of a problem with it as long as the ?quality is good.

Hi!

Yup, my sentiment too.

Primarch

Mine, as well.

BTW, I voted #3.
Author:  javelin98 [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Well, I turned him down on the Epic deal.  He didn't seem willing to negotiate on the legit figs, and I'm not going to pay for recasts (one factor in my purchase decisions is the ability to resell or trade away the item at a later date, which I don't think I could do in good conscience with recasts).  Someone on another board already reported the guy to GW, so we'll see if they care or not.


For the record, Evil & Chaos wins the poll.  Take 10,000 karma points, E&C!  I think your new character alignment is "Chaotic Awesome".
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:16 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Take 10,000 karma points, E&C!

Well, I did feel I had a certain reputation to keep up. :)
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!

(Kotrin @ Nov. 06 2006,13:01)
QUOTE
Sorry to break the consensus but... there are no valid "current miniatures" "personal use only" or "i'm not making any profit" arguments.

Recasts are illegal, period.

Now, it's up to you to denounce the matter (that's one of the few cases where GW will be very happy to hear from a customer), forget about it, or join.

This is why I have a hard time with IP law.  'Fair use' of software, music CDs, and DVDs specifically allows me to have a backup copy of the software (although, the Sony PS2 OS has an issue with 'burned' copies of Playstation games).  I cannot legally sell the software without also including the backup copy in the deal (or destroying the backups), however.

In the case of rare Playstation games, this would allow me to play the game without further damaging the used disk I bought at significant expense (Suikoden 1 is $65, and Suikoden 2 is $130.  USED, on eBay.  Have fun trying to get a copy of either), IF the stupid PS2 would read a burned disk.

How is that different from recasting minis?  Or do I need to pay a Copyright lawyer $100 an hour for the explanation?
Author:  consectari [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:39 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!

(Lion in the Stars @ Nov. 06 2006,19:12)
QUOTE
This is why I have a hard time with IP law. ?'Fair use' of software, music CDs, and DVDs specifically allows me to have a backup copy of the software (although, the Sony PS2 OS has an issue with 'burned' copies of Playstation games). ?I cannot legally sell the software without also including the backup copy in the deal (or destroying the backups), however.

edit...
How is that different from recasting minis? ?Or do I need to pay a Copyright lawyer $100 an hour for the explanation?

Just an educated guess, but the miniature would be protected because "you" personally can realistically make use of 2 (or more) of the same type of unit.

Whereas with a game, "you" personally can't make use of multiple copies at the same time.  CDs, games, etc are also on a somewhat fragile media, and a backup is useful for that reason.

Having said this, I am not coming down on the side of Johnny Law in this matter.  Just offering my theory behind the reasoning.
Author:  Legion 4 [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:30 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!
Hmmm ... morals among Mercenaries !  :D
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Recasts!

(Legion 4 @ Nov. 07 2006,04:30)
QUOTE
Hmmm ... morals among Mercenaries ! ?:D

Wasn't that a Slammers short story?  ;)
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