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Andrayada DSII stats

Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 4:38 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:45 pm
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Warning: exceedingly long post follows

I asked this in another thread and decided to start a separate one to avoid threadjacking. Basically I want to come up with some DSII stats for Andrayada minis. If this works well I might branch out to the other DRM factions as well. I'll most likely get the DRM rules when they're available, but for now I like DSII because it doesn't tie me down to one manufacturer's minis. That and DSII is free.

Here's the fun part, I also plan to base these in manner that will allow me to alter the base size for different games using the same models. This will be accomplished with a magnetic basing system. Infantry will be based five to 20cm x 20cm base, everything else individually. The bottoms will be metal. For games that require larger basing, I'll have magnetic ?hot spots? on the bases to affix the models to. In theory (where everything works) I should be able to make a variety of bases that allow me maximum flexibility for basing.

Regarding the Andrayada here's my thoughts on them and DSII rules. Since we're dealing with a race of robots I figure they've got electronics pretty much down pat. So any stealth, ECM, and fire control systems will be the highest level available or as makes sense. Weaponry will be a combination of MDC (rail guns), HEL, DFFG, and missiles/rockets. Powerplants for vehicles will be FGPs exclusively.

For infantry I'm looking at the models in Infantry Pack 1 as being Line or Militia infantry and the command stand being an Assault Team that is also a Mobile Command/Control Center (representing the commander figure). Infantry Pack 2 isn't quite so clear cut. DSII assumes that a team with an anti-personnel weapon only has close assault weapons (basically sidearms) which doesn't really fit what the models represent. I've two thoughts on how this should work. Either Pack 1 stands doesn't have IAVRs and the Pack 2 support weapons represent IAVRs, or Pack 2 models are APSW teams that can either engage in an infantry firefight as normal infantry or use the APSW but not both. For the sake of simplicity I think I'm going to go with the Pack 2 stands with IAVRs and Pack 1 stands without.

Vanguards will be standard Power Infantry. Vulturs will be Power Infantry GMS/L teams. Haven't quite figured out the Scouts yet. I'm going to either use them as Militia Infantry or as Line infantry artillery observation teams. Another thought I had was to figure out some kind of sniper team ability that forces a morale test, would have to figure out a point value for that though.

Hubries are going to be size 1 grav vehicles. I'm going to go with a GMS/L and the free APSW for the variant with the rocket pod looking thing and for the other variant a HEL/2 and the free APSW. I may make them size 2 vehicles and increase the weapon payload, but I'm waiting to get them before I make a final decision.

The walkers I haven't quite figured out yet. Right now I'm thinking the Velites and Vergers will be size 4 walkers, the Voran and Vorace size 5, the Malignant size 6, the Mordent size 7, and the Majestic a modular vehicle (2 leg modules, 2 arm modules, and a torso module). I want to get my hands on physical models before trying to determine weapons for them. I'll probably order some in January.

Those are my initial thoughts. Anyone with experience on DSII and willing to offer advice is greatly appreciated. Whay do yall think?

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Cuban Commissar

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:11 am

Purestrain

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 2933
Location: Colorado, USA

I like your thoughts let me digest and I'll get back...promise

I'm a dirtside fan too

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Cuban Commissar

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:37 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:32 am
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Location: Colorado, USA

Ok Sgt here we go. ?

1. ?On ECM and Stealth power plants.

ECM - Yes the toasters (

) will be the best at ECM.
Fire control - I agree here as well digital eyes and sensors. ?
Stealth - I'm not sure that stealth may be the highest for these guys. ?They are putting up a lot of electronic signals, just talking to themselves generate radio waves. ?Aslo they are machines that give off heat. ?In the electromagnetic spectrum a Toaster army would appear like a flare. ?

Power plant - yeah they need fusion power. ?

Here is what i would do with the infantry. ?I would actually use the scouts as the "Standard" infantry. ?

I would use the Vanguard and Vultures as the heavy weapon troopers. ? They look like scouts with heavy weapons

So that way each "Squad" ?has it's representative SAW type weapon. ?The vultures appear to have machine guns and the vanguard appear to have GMS/L type anti tank weapons. ?

Are the Vultures suppose to have jump packs? ?Maybe you can just snipe them off. ? ?

I would use these guys as the Power Armor infantry

The Hubris sounds good. ?

The mecha I don;t know. ?

You may also want to tweak the morale rules to give them less checks. ?In essecne the toasters don't care if one of there buddies is melted.

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 4:19 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:45 pm
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Jeez, everytime I try to reply to this I get interrupted. ?Thanks for the feedback. ?Good point on the stealth, wasn't really paying to much attention to emmisions when I made the original post. ?I think I like your ideas on infantry better. ?I just figured I'd call the backpack on the Vulturs the power source for their weapon.

For morale I'm thinking they won't test morale until an element is at 50% strength. ?I'll probably change that number later once I get a chance to actually play.

I've got some ideas on the walkers, but don't have time to make another mega post.

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:36 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:45 pm
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Alrighty, have a little bit of time now, let's talk walkers...

First up, the Verger and Velite (note all pictures are from DRM's site, not my own work)

Both will be size 4 combat walkers with armor 4, Superior fire-control and ECM, and level 1 stealth. ?For the Verger, I'm going to go with SLAM/4, DFFG/5, and two APFC (and of course the free APSW).

The Velite I'm having a hard time figuring out what the heck that thing on the right arm is supposed to be. ?I'm leaning towards calling it either an MDC/4 or /5. ?The other arm a HEL/5.

And now the Vorace...

This will be a size 5 combat walker, armor 5, Superior fire control and ECM, level 1 stealth. ?The main dorsal gun will be a MDC/5 and the three smaller weapons HELs (haven't run the numbers yet, whatever I can fit). ?A variation may be the dorsal gun being a HEL/5 and the others APSWs or DFFGs.

The Voran

This one poses a bit of a quandary as it appears to have nine weapon systems on it. ?Question is how to make it all fit. ?As with the Vorace, it will be a size 5 combat walker, armor 5, Superior fire control and ECM and level 1 Stealth. ?One thought I had was to call the top six tubes a single Heavy Artillery weapon, the bottom two tubes either class 2 MDCs or HELs, the chin turret an APSW, and some APFC belts to round it out. ?Another idea was the top six being HEL/1s, the bottom two either MDC/3s or DFFG/3s, and the chin turret being an APSW. ?Need to run these through the design system to make sure it'll all work. ?Yet another idea was to covert it into a transport walker by removing the top six guns, slicing off the legs and widening the body with some sheet styrene.

Next up, the Malignant

This guy is going to be a challenge and will require some house rules to use unmodified. ?My first instinct is to cut off the hand and replace it with something else. ?At any rate, lets start with the easy stuff, size 6 combat walker, armor 6, Superior fire control and ECM, level 2 Stealth (just to keep from making it too easy on the other guy). ?It will mount a second Fire Control System. The right arm will be four GMS/H launchers which will take up 16 of the 30 available capacity points. ?I may make the oversize walkers mobilie command posts as well which would take up another 8 capacity. ?Regarding that hand, if I leave it I'm going to come up with house rules for combat walker close assaults, which could be interesting and open up some possibilities for unmodified Titan and Battlemech models in DSII. ?Unless of course anyone knows of any similar house rules already written.

And the Mordent

First off, the claw things are going to be removed. ?I don't like 'em. ?They look like they could be used for some interesting terrain though. ?Anyway, here I'm looking at size 7 combat walker, armor 7, Superior fire control and ECM, level 2 stealth, and two extra fire control systems. ?Dorsal missile pods will be an MRL launcher classed as Heavy Artillery, the right arm a MDC/5, and the left arm modified into a bank of four HEL/1s.

The big guy, the Majestic:

This guy's going to be a five part modular unit. ?I'm figuring the torso and legs to be size 5, armor 5, each arm size 4, armor 4. ?Two Superior fire control systems, superior ECM, no stealth. ?Right arm will count as two MDC/5, Left arm will be two HEL/5. ?The torso section will contain a command center. ?Will probably put some APFC belts in the legs. ?This is going to require some modification to the modular vehicle rules. ?Also I hope that some alternate arms get made for the Majestic, it has lots of possibilities. ?Especially if one of those arms looked like it could be used for something like dual DFFG/5s! :evilgrin:

The Vertex:

I'm going to have to get my hands on one of these but right now I'm thinking either a size 7 transport with 32 capacity points for transport allowing it to transport 8 infantry stands, 4 power infantry stands, 4 class 1 vehicles, 2 class 2 vehicles, or 1 class 3 vehicle. ?This kind of works with TO&E I've gotten started on which have units in groups of either 1, 2, 4, or 8 but that'll probably be the next post.

I need to figure out what I'm going to do with the two aircraft as well. ?I'd like one to be some kind of grav vtol thingy but neither model really lends itself to that. ?Something for me to mull over I guess. ?Anyway, whaddya think?

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Cuban Commissar

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:50 am

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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:32 am
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It all sounds good run with it.

The walkers are going to need massive armor to take the hits they are going to receive.

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:04 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:45 pm
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Unless there's errata out there I'm missing, they all have the max armor possible (armor = size). I have a feeling these aren't going to be "points-light" units.

I'm going to work on a pretty chart to post showing an example TO&E when I explain how I'm going to organize things.

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TuffSkull

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:22 pm

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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am
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I have teh DSII rules, but have only played them once unfortunately. Thus, I'll offer basic pointers geared more towards themodels than anything else, since I have a lot of experience with the ranges

Vultures are intended as jump pack troops. They could easily be regarded as power plants for the Heavy weapons though.

Hubries will almost definitely be size 1 vehicles - they're very small.

You'll also find a greater variety in size between the Vergers / velites etc and the 3 big "Mega walkers". If you're Using the vorace as size 5, then all 3 should probably be moduled vehicles. I'd downgrade the Velite & Verger to size 3 - they really are only MBTs. And thus the Vorace & Voran to size 4.

The Velite's right arm is a power-mace Close combat weapon. An MDC designation could work though - it is sci-fi after all, our background designs are only guidance for the gamer!

The Voran has 3 tiers of 3 on its back - the center barrel is retracted in recoil 7 not entirely visable from that picture. Another way to look at it would be as 3 very powerful AP weapons systems, rather than 9 individual weapons - that would make it a lot easier to fit it all in.

The Malignant. I have to admit some ignorance here. I'm not entirely sure how its packaged, since theones I've worked with came straight fromthe moulding room! However, the gatling style gun from the Mordent is designed to be interchangeable & willfit over the fist of the Malignant. Vice versa, the Missile pod from the Malignant can also be attached instead of the claws or the gatling cannon onto the mordent. If they're inteh box, you'll have no worries about SHW CC - but I'll check out the packaging next time I talk to the boss!

Majestic:
You wont be disappointed with regards to new arms... something might just already be sitting in my cabinets waiting for the all clear for world to see

If you're waiting for the new year anyway, you shouldn't be disappointd..... just dont tell anyone - Im not sure I'm meant to have said that much!

Sounds like a very interesting project - I might have to play DSII sometime now I've dug the rules out again!

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:30 pm

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Thanks for the info on the models! I haven't received my first shipment yet, and it's all infantry and hubries this time around. I'm quite happy that there are some option "out of the box" so to speak for the Mordent and Malignant. I've always prefered my giant robot to have guns rather than fists. Even way back when I played Battletech my favorite 'Mechs were those that had all guns. Your hinting to new arms for the Majestic also fills me with glee!

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TuffSkull

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:19 pm

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(Sergeant_Crunch @ Dec. 09 2006,13:30)

QUOTE

?I'm quite happy that there are some option "out of the box" so to speak for the Mordent and Malignant. ?

Please note:

I'm not sure they come with the weapons options.

The pieces are certainly interchangeable, but they may be packaged with just the ones shown on the "studio" pieces & more weapons will be released at a later date for both. At this stage, i simply dont know & will have to check.

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Legion 4

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:41 pm

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Nice work Sarge ! And I think I'll look at my Andys again, still all SIB ! :alien:

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:01 am

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(TuffSkull @ Dec. 09 2006,09:19)

QUOTE

(Sergeant_Crunch @ Dec. 09 2006,13:30)

QUOTE

I'm quite happy that there are some option "out of the box" so to speak for the Mordent and Malignant.

Been busy fixing things around the mini storage facility (aka house) today, haven't had much of a chance to work any of this up. Maybe tomorrow, but I have to do some painting tomorrow, deadlines whooshing by and all. I understand that the swappable weapons aren't in the same package, sorry for the confusion.

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:09 am

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OK, worked up some stats. You can check 'em out here.

I apologize for formatting irregularities. I'll probably go back and pretty it up some later.

Since I've got some stats to work with I started thinking about TO&E. Since they're robots, why not something based on a binary system. So here's my thoughts. The primary is the battlegroup which is comprised of 16 constituent detachments numbered 0000 through 1111. Detachment 0000 is always the overall command unit (either infantry command stand from either infantry pack 1 or infantry pack 2, Mordent, Malignent, or Majestic). Multiples of those elements can be taken in a battle group, but Det 0000 is always the starting commander. A detachment equates roughly to a platoon, kinda. Detachment organization is as follows:

8 stands of infantry (any type)
4 small models (size 1 and size 2 vehicles)
2 Medium to large models or any aircraft except dropships (size 3 to size 5)
1 Oversize and dropship models (size 6 and size 7 vehicles and modular models like the big walkers)

Detachments are fielded as seen fit by the battle group commander taking what is necessary for the mission at hand. All sixteen detachments do not need to be filled, unused detachments simply have a null value to the strategic sub-routines run by the commander.

Here's a sample battle group using two packages of Andrayada Scouts, and one package each of Vulturs and Vanguards as Line Infantry, Line Infantry APSW teams, and Line Infantry GMS/L teams. One package of Andrayada Infantry (pack 1 or 2, doesn't really matter) as the command detachment . The commander and bodyguard stand is a power infantry stand with a mobile command post upgrade (call it enhanced processing and strategic/tactical/risk-benefit analysis software. The remaining are standard Power Infantry as in DSII. One package of Hubries, Vergers and Velites as listed in the stats linked above. This all comes to about 56 USD (not including S&H) if I'm not far off my mark.

Points break-out by detachment
0000 400pts
0001 260pts
0010 260pts
0011 160pts
0100 360pts
0101 484pts
0110 484pts
0111 388pts
1000 388pts
1001 436pts
1010 784pts
1011 738pts
1100 761pts

total 5903pts

comes out to an odd number, but toss in a few modifications to the units and you should easily be able to get it closer to an even 6000. I suppose it would help knowing what an average size game would be to gauge if this is about.

Anyway, have it at, questions/comments most welcome.

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TuffSkull

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:46 am

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Sounds cool to me. I'm not much use at the specifics of DSII - as I said, I've only played it once!

I like the use of the binary system. I tried to think Binary when I painted the first studio pieces. They were plain Black & white with barcode style unit markings, but we canned the idea, added some blue & have what you see now instead!

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Sergeant_Crunch

Post subject: Andrayada DSII stats

Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:44 pm

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I like how you painted them, almost reminds me of Tron.

Oh, I forgot to mention it above, but the infantry work in teams of two stands. The typical organization would be a Line Infantry team with either an APSW or GMS/L team. The line team provides cover against infantry for the GMS/L teams or against armor (using IAVRs) for APSW teams while the support weapons engage their targets. Of course two line teams would do what infantry have done since the dawn of war, engage the enemy and seize key terrain. The heavy weapon detachments could organize either as one GMS/L team and one APSW team one providing cover for the other, or they could go with two of the same type of team and engage their specialized targets.

Next I think I'll be looking at how to handle morale without imbalancing them against other units.

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