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General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 12:19 pm 
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Missile tech is dependant on targeting - so over the horizon launches sure but how to get to the target without being intercepted/jammed? A novel tank missile defence system made by an oz guy almost a decade ago now was an 'electronic trigger' for small caliber rounds - net result several thousand rounds in a second or two. Potential applications include last ditch interception of missiles and a cheap way of shredding light vehicles.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:20 pm 
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UAVs will see more use as will computerized missile/weapons tech increase ... In Slammer's Uni, AI would enable weapons systems (2cm tri-barrels mostly) to intercept all airborne targets including FA shells ... making most air vehicles obsolete/targets ... ?Don't think it will ever come to that any time soon, but who knows ? ??? ?Of course, having CAS and FA of limited use, makes the 170 ton Blowers (2-3 times the size of our current MBTs/AFVs !!) much more survivable. ?Like a 60 ft + Titan would/is an easy/ priority target for CAS, OWPs(OBS), FA, etc., etc. ... ? ?:;):   But we'll still use'm until their deployment is not cost effective ... :o0  :blues:




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Heresiarch
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:51 pm 
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Quote (Cuban Commissar @ 25 Mar. 2006 (02:41))
More and More the UCAV will operate indepently using mission specific software

I also imagine that most airborne weapons will be a over the horizen for range.

Hhmmm... I actually hadn't seen those links before. Thanks! :D

I suppose... at the risk of splitting hairs... I may want to qualify in either a "near sci-fi" sense or a "high sci-fi sense" then.

Using you links as an example of the "near sci-fi" genre while the plane in question might be able to fly itself to the target and perhaps even take evasive maneuvers as it flys through active air defenses it still depends on a radiated signal, namely GPS, to hit it's target.

If you can jam the signal somehow it's 0.5m CEP guided munition becomes just another dumb hunk of iron. And I can remember reading reports that Iraq had "acquired" and deployed Russian equipment that was designed to jam GPS signals in 2003.

Admitedly those obviously didn't work if in fact they did even exist but you can bet that both the Russians and the Chinese are trying to develop gear that does exactly that. Which ties back into my near-peer comments earlier.

Now if you want to forward it into a "high sci-fi" genre where the AI flying the plane is either sentient or near sentient and is capable of making it's own choices "on the fly" as to targets, maneuvers and what have you then it's effectively having the same thing as a manned flight anyways.

Conceivably right up to the point of having the AI develop some form of combat related PTSD.

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:53 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 25 Mar. 2006 (04:19))
A novel tank missile defence system made by an oz guy almost a decade ago now was an 'electronic trigger' for small caliber rounds - net result several thousand rounds in a second or two. Potential applications include last ditch interception of missiles and a cheap way of shredding light vehicles.

They're still a going concern actually.

"Metal Storm Limited - Electronically initiated 'stacked projectile' weapon technology"

http://metalstorm.com/

The 40mm grenade launcher videos are kind of frightening with regards to the sheer amount of rounds it can put down range in such a minute period of time.

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Markconz
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 6:48 am 
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I think you can go ultramodern, say 50 years hence, but then 'real' sci-fi becomes unimaginable. Almost every branch of technology has exponential growth curves, most sci-fi predictions (like the ones voiced in this thread) are way off course if those continue.

Instead of spaceships and guns, think billions and billions of nanotech robots attacking at the molecular level. Human merged with AI so as to be indistinguishable. Other nanotech fighting back at that level. Whoever has the best AI wins and incorporates the enemies mass into more robots.

Of course pulp science fiction like epic and hammers slammers and other ideas in this thread makes for better wargaming :;):

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:54 am 
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Yes ultra high tech is no fun - hell WWII pacific naval is no fun (and I find you first with my planes, destroy your carriers, and win. Wahey!) unless ultra high tech has canceled each other out to a gedree where it is understandably again :)

I liked incidentally Ian Banks sci fi society at war stuff. Things like grid fire novering suns and the like.

Oh and 'metalstorm' - terrifying stuff, entertaining name :)

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:02 pm 
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Quote (Markconz @ 25 Mar. 2006 (22:48))
Instead of spaceships and guns, think billions and billions of nanotech robots attacking at the molecular level. Human merged with AI so as to be indistinguishable. Other nanotech fighting back at that level. Whoever has the best AI wins and incorporates the enemies mass into more robots.

On that topic the largest investor in research on nanotechnology in the world is actually the People's Republic of China.

As I understand it they actually spend more than the rest of the world combined does.

Another thing to consider would be bioweapons as well... it's getting easier and cheaper to get real results with biotechnology and I suspect you'll end up seeing "commercial" results with that long before nanotech.

But... once again thats not much fun to wargame so...

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:40 pm 
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One thing that occured to me today, my fav future setting is dune - they successfully negate all the problems that come with such a set of tech (lasers, spaceships etc). Now all they need is air on arrakis :)

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Legion 4
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 10:13 pm 
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Along with the Slammers ... I'm a big fan of "Star Gate" and S/G Atlantis ... :D  I can relate to the soldier/military  aspects ...  :D

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 5:05 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 25 Mar. 2006 (11:19))
Missile tech is dependant on targeting - so over the horizon launches sure but how to get to the target without being intercepted/jammed? A novel tank missile defence system made by an oz guy almost a decade ago now was an 'electronic trigger' for small caliber rounds - net result several thousand rounds in a second or two. Potential applications include last ditch interception of missiles and a cheap way of shredding light vehicles.

The US Navy has been employing something like this, called CIWS for Close in Weapon System, for about 20 years. It's a radar-controlled gatling gun designed as a last-ditch weapon for missile defense. This thing can fire thousands of rounds/minute and works well.




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 6:55 pm 
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Oh yeah, anectdotal evidence is that its a mean flock of seabirds killer as well :)

The metalstorm guys seem to be marketing a cheaper version.

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Heresiarch
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:08 pm 
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The difference between the CIWS and the Metal Storm method is that the CIWS is just a plain old 20mm chain gun firing at around 6000 or so rpm while the metal storm "tube" literally stacks multiple rounds in the tube nose to tail "x" deep.

And then you can cluster tubes into as large a tube as you want. And then you can fire them all at once so a 10 x10 cluster of tubes ends up giving you a ROF something on the order of 1,000,000 RPM.

No belt feed to worry about.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:41 am 
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IIRC, it was called the "Vulcan Phalanx". Very high ROF ... ?Likened to Hammer's Tri-barrels ... We also had a 20mm Vulcan G-gun mounted on an M113 chassis, an M-163 for ADA ... and could really do a job on troops, light vehs., etc. ...

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dafrca
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:49 am 
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This thread was most interesting to read. The one point missing in the discussion was costs. Economics plays as large a role in what weapons are used as does technology. The cost to run/make/etc that super duper weapon may mean I keep it on the home planet for use here and send the second level weapons out to invade the other planet.

Also keep in mind, politics also plays a role here. Just look at the whole mess over in Iraq. Politics has played a role in what weapons and tactics we will allow to be used etc. Not technology. We have many more powerful weapons then what we are using.

Just a couple of points to add to the discussion.

dafrca

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Legion 4
 Post subject: General thoughts on Si-Fi combat
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:50 am 
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IIRC, Clauswitz said something like, "War is an extention of politics by other means" ... ?IIRC ? ??? ? $$$ is always the bottom line and politics always drives the train ... Iraq is just one example ... ?In the 80s, Air Power got the Big Bucks, and ground forces suffered. ?But it was critical to retain air superiority ... However as one retired Army General pointed out in a recent article, the ground units are paying the price now ...  Regardless ... armies will always be sent under strength and under supplied because of politics ... It was even that way in some of the Slammer's Ops ! ? ? ? :;):

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