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Redesigning battletech
tneva82
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:11 pm 
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Battletech is one game I have liked about in terms of fluff, style, rules and idea. Problem(apart from finding suitable models and opponents to play with) is simply that it takes so bloody long to play!

The new mechwarrior:dark age or something like that could solve model problem(though randomly packed. Yeuch! Would have to look for 2nd handed deals) but from what I have seen it doesn't feel same way as battletech felt like. Too much stuff that changed.

So I'm looking at designing my own ruleset that is as close to old battletech(working from battletech compendium I have). I have several of my own ideas already(like scrapping all those 2d6 dices. They give nice probability curve but forces you to roll all rolls one by one which slooooooows game down.

I'm also looking to cut down excess modifiers(there's point where too many is too many) and trying to make combat tad more lethal(here's memory of 2 medium mech vs 2 medium mechs jumping over each other with very few shots hitting and small damage eroding armour a little shot by shot. Took a LOOOONG time until one side had taken too much damage to carry on). This is done mainly by cutting out number of damage boxes a bit and with modified damage system. Basicly rather than outer and inner armour that works the same way inner armour works similary to how it used but outer armour works basicly as damage reduction. Each weapon has own damage dice(I felt it bit odd that machine gun for example can eat mech alive inch by inch if you give it enough time).

Damage rolls that exceed outer armour causes damage to inner armour equal to excess damage. This means that heavy weapons can quite literally punch through outer armour to cause nasty damage instantly. Weak weapons might not even punch through outer armour to begin with...

That's the initial idea anyway. Trying to write down initial ideas down to semi-coherent document which anybody who is interested can get(mail me at tneva@tneva.net). However any of 'tech fans have further ideas on what aspects really slow down the game and which could benefit from tweaks that, while maintaining feel of old, would also speed up a bit?

Just a crazy small project for me to work in  :p

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primarch
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:09 am 
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Hi!

Have you tried a search for this on the web? I think I may have seen some attempts at this in the many years past.

Pimarch

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Suvarov454
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 3:46 am 
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While I can't help you with changing the rules (I personally think that any ruleset that remains substantially unchanged for 25 years deserves to be played "as is"), I can help you with the "dice rolls slowing down the game" problem.  Check out MegaMek.  It is (or at least tries to be) a faithful implementation of the BattleTech Master Rules (revised), but it takes care of the random number generation and bookkeeping for you.

Two or three hour games are common, with players contemplating their moves or reading the shooting results taking up the vast majority of the playing time.

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Cuban Commissar
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:30 pm 
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I'll provide more thoughts when I return from vacation
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the_fifth_horseman
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 2:34 pm 
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Personally, I feel that all the modifiers to rolls could use a fair degree of simplifying. Just figuring out which of them apply is a nightmare for a new player.

I wouldn't however like to see the mech stats and design process suffer any changes - that would not only invalidate the zillion-and-one custom designs people love making, but also create a neccesity of reworking the "official" stats as well.

I like the concept of weapons "punching through" the outer armor, but... does that mean it is completely changed into a permament modifier or the attacks take chunks out of it and thus its efficiency in preventing damage reduces overtime?




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Thrynexx
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:05 pm 
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There may be some useful ideas to be had from using Battleforce 1 & 2, or the Classic Battletech Tactics book, and even Mechwarriors streamlined rules.

I need to read these, maybe someone has read them and can offer opinions/ideas?

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Sergeant_Crunch
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:16 am 
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Depending on how beholden you are to Battletech, have you looked at CAV (either the original or second edition)?

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Dave
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:57 pm 
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Or, if you'd like a different method of book keeping you can take a took at Renegade Tech:

http://www.fluency.paintedtarget.org/rtech/

It was based off of FASA Renegade Legion game Centurion.  I thought using the templates to chip away at the armor was fun.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:29 pm 
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Also, Trilemma Warmasters converted all the Battletech mechs to EpicA stats so they could be used with the EpicA rules to do really big battles.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 10:15 pm 
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You could also take a look at using Heavy Gear Blitz for your ruleset, although the design process for vehicles is ... a bit time-consuming, to say the least.

I've preferred the HG combat mechanics ever since I first got ahold of the First edition book back in 94 or 95.  I think you'd need to grab a copy of one of the Jovian Chronicles books to get the construction rules (since HG Blitz doesn't include construction, just pre-built vehicles) and then follow the conversion templates from HG/JC (they use the same mechanics and construction system) to HG Blitz.  

I recommend the blitz rules because they are written for larger forces on the table, and formation activation instead of model activation.  Allows a much larger force size without being completely unmanageable like Battletech is for any force larger than a Lance/Star of Mechs (4-5 models per side, for you non-BT players out there).

HG Blitz is written for 40-50 models/side at the "2000-point" level, which is a much better feel for the scale of battles in the BT universe (especially if you've read any of the BT novels), and engagements of that size are playable in 2-3 hours once you learn the rules.  Last time I played BT at that scale, it was an all-day event, starting right when the shop opened at 10am, lasted until 8pm... lots of carnage, but just too dang LONG to  really be enjoyable.

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Thrynexx
 Post subject: Redesigning battletech
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Yes I am thinking of streamlining only a small bit of the Battletech mechanic system. ?The most important mechanics that need changing a little bit are:

1. Tactics outcome determination- make the outcome more dependent on manuevering, command & control, formation, planning, terrain, and composition then mostly dice rolls as it is now. ?Also, less dice rolls would speed up play as well.

2. ?Recordkeeping. One thought is to use Mechwarrior clicks miniatures, and fraction (maybe quarter of actual result) the damage result using the battletech system, then take that off of the click counter on the mini. ?Heat might also be good enough to keep track of using the Mechwarrior clicks mini.
-So basically you would use a Mechwarrior clicks mini for unit representation, & damage and heat recordkeeping. ?You would still have the units record sheet, but would not have to fill in the damage dots. ?You would still use damage location, and instead just note if enough damage was scored to a part to render it useless on the record sheet.

More ideas shall be added, input welcome.


Also, the Battletech/Epic game rules sound like they would work really well, possibly combining EPic & Battletech/Mechwarrior minis. ?Have to try them out.

The Renegade Legion hybrid sounds pretty good too, anyone try these out, how are they?




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