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Fanatic is evolving

 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:41 pm 
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Quote (Jimbo @ 04 2004 Nov.,08:41)
Quote (primarch @ 03 2004 Nov.,23:25)
I just read the whole SG forums post....

..it seems people have "woken up" to the fact that this "news" isnt good...

When I read JJs post I immediately read between the lines and saw it as bad news.

When I read the SG forum I almost laughed when there were people who didn't recognise bad news when it is dressed in flowery language.

This announcement from JJ is bad news, plain and simple.

I think this is due to the fact not everyone on those forums has even finished High School yet. I do not mean that in a negative way, but his first post was a well crafted "Corp Speak" memo. Lots of people in my company have the same gift. Say a lot, offer little. Sound positive when offering a negative. If is pure Corp Speak.

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:21 am 
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Hi!

Jimbo, I have pondered on the point made of relative epic success and cutting into studio sales. This is a very valid argument and perhaps close to the truth. Remember, for GW, NOTHING, not even one of its own games can get in the way of the profits of the core games. If one happens to do that, in all likelihood it WILL get canned. We will never know beyond rumor of course, but its a theory I beleive may reflect reality.

Also, I agree some on the SG forums are "slow" to pick this up and even a thread about a positive "spin" on this development. As Jimbo mentioned, bad news is bad news no matter how you spin it.

We've been through droughts before so another one doesnt bother me much.

I sincerly do hope FW takes up the mantle, they would be FAR more reliable than SG in the long run.

We watch and wait.

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:22 am 
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I agree. This is something that I am increasingly fed up of. I am tired of being sold bad news, wrapped up as 'this is great and we are doing it for the good of the game and the players'.  :(

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:26 am 
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Hi!

One thing needs to remain clear....

Jervis is blameless in this.

I feel so sorry for him, as I have stated in the past. He is a TRUE hobbiest caught in the interests and desires of the corporate office. He has been thwarted at EVERY step, NONE of the promises made from the onset of the new epic from the marketing aspect have come to pass.

Let us remember he is a simple (if well known) employee. He has NO control on corporate policy.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:33 am 
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I agree with all comments above.  This is bad.  A few things to ponder though:

a) There could be a fire sale and I'm stocking up!

b) It may herald a reopening of the GW M/O bitz store!

c) JJ is a game designer, but he has to tow the party line.  Simple as that.  I'm sure he is as gutted by this move as well, having invested a not insubstatial amount of his own blood, sweat and tears and being The Epic Guy since AT.

d) GW sucks, but then it always has.  I'm as annoyed at myself for allowing myself to be suckered in by them again and again.  People like us barely register on the sales percentage (not withstanding primarch's comment on epic sales above, which i'm not sure I agree with but is interesting anyway) so they ont care.  There will always be new and excitable 12-14 yr olds with wads of Mum/Dads/Grandma's cash to spend.

e) FW are seperate to GW and even got the Tau out before EA was announced.  There is a small glimmer of sunshine on the horizon, for thos willing to pay for it.

Just a few thoughts to try and see where the silver lining is here.  
I refuse to allow myself to succumb to this Apolcalyptic downhill slide. :)

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:37 am 
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Hi!

Good points all. I really hope FW perks up and desires to cash in on the epic market and continues expansion.

All I see are my year old predicitions coming to pass. GW does not support epic.... PERIOD.

I will leave optimism to all of you though.... :;):

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:54 am 
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Optimism is dead.  Gw has finally killed it off.

:O :O :O

Unless you are a 40k player.....  :p

Sorry couldnt resist.  :laugh:

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:11 am 
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Geez, its not that bad is it guys?? ???

Am I the only one who thought the initial plans for EA were overly ambitious? Starting off not by releasing the big five core armies... but instead multiple variant lists with specific respective miniatures for each of them (eg siegemasters, chapter specific marines, feral orks, orkimedes mob etc...).  Maybe the marketing people are right to reign in Jervis and his grandiose plans for hundreds of different armies }:)

At this stage of EA's innings they should be trying to accumulate quick and safe singles, hitting loose deliveries to the boundary, and saving the big hitting 4's and 6's for when a respectable tally has been accumulated (apologies to N American readers for the analogy).  Pump out five well playtested and balanced armies, plus rules for FW stuff, and work on the other variations later, that would be my choice.  

I've seen too many 'by the gamers for the gamers' charity companies fall over to have any faith in that sort of mantra. At least GW's hardcore marketing approach keeps them alive, and some sort of support for epic available.  Plenty of goodness has happened for EA recently - free rules/lists/mags, plastics still around (though extortionate  :;): )  Lots of EA miniatures available for purchase again... and nothing as ugly as MKII vindicators among them... I could go on but I can sense the crowd is picking up stones...  :L

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:38 am 
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We don't use stones here on Epicomms.....you must be thinking of that other site.... :p

my 2cents,

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:47 am 
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Well, it would be nice if F/W picked up the Epic "ball" ... but who knows !  G/W US reopening Epic Archives would be too much to hope for (recent experiences, hope = disappointment :{ ). < "wait and see mode" >

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:21 pm 
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Markconz- you make valid points, but remeber this is the whole of the SG range we are talking about~ games like Necromunda have had dreadful (read virtually no) support recently- and it seemed things were just starting to pick up; now Fanatic is being downsized, it is difficult to see if we will continue to get a good service from GW...
The 'less new releases' point is the key one here in my opinion- as has already been said, the minis are what makes a game, and if nothing interesting and new is coming out for whatever you play, then this will put off new players who may see their army as unsupported (or the game for that matter), and those who play already may get bored or disheartened....

New items were not exactly pouring out for all the games systems, but Epic seems likely to come off worst from this policy change- it has three (soon four) major races covered, but there are huge gaps- no necrons/nids/chaos, etc, etc ...Virtually all the other SGs have a more mature range that extensively covers most of the armies that 'should' be available.

All the free good stuff we've got for Epic is great- but they managed to do all this, and produce a lot of excellent new miniatures at the same time... why should this not continue? ???

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:56 pm 
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Post from Nate Montes (you will have seen his stuff in Fanatic) on the BFG yahoo group.

OK Folks, I know there is lots of talk about what is happening with the ecent big changes announced for Fanatic by Jervis Johnson. Jervis Johnson and Matt Keefe sent me a detailed letter explaining what's going on with Fanatic in general and Battlefleet Gothic in particular. First of all DO'NT PANIC!! Did I mention don't panic? Okay, 'ere we go.


- Fanatic magazine will be printed for now. However, to make sure everyone has access to the magazine articles, new rules and pertinent information, Fanatic is considering making Fanatic Magazine free and web-based. As the magazines move on, pertinent articles will become permanent and integral parts of their respective websites. The current published resources such as
Armada will be available for the foreseeable future.

- Each website will have a living rulebook as part of the website. This way, hiccups, oversights and other such hate-inducing problems can be corrected through periodic reviews, making a long-term FAQ and constant updates to the FAQ unnecessary. What this ALSO does is allow new players to purchase a pack of Games Workshop dice and a fleet tailored to their desires without having to purchase an entire box set of ships they may not want just to get the rules. Just as important, this allows players to look at the rules and storyline and make an informed decision what fleet they would like to get into before making any purchase at all. Battlefleet Gothic's newly refurbished website is on-line and will receive tons of new material in the next few days. Check it out at the following link:
http://www.specialist-games.com/battlef ... efault.asp


- New miniatures will still be coming out for Battlefleet Gothic and the other Specialist Game ranges for the foreseeable future. However, what has happened is that Specialist has released so many new miniatures for their games (more than GW did for WH40k, Warhammer and LOTR combined!), that support by Specialist and it's small staff in the form of rules and resources such as the magazine have suffered greatly. For example, in just 2004 for JUST Battlefleet Gothic, we have seen the new Tau fleet (four kits,
three blisters), Craftworld Eldar (one kit, three blisters), and Rogue Traders (one kit, one blister). This does not take into account the Dark Eldar fleet, Space Marine escorts, Armageddon battleship and escorts, and new Tyranid fleet that came out late in 2003. This also doesn't account for the Armada publication, which I can personally attest too a LOT of work all by itself! Keep in mind that a large range of new miniatures and published material ALSO came out for Inquisitor, Blood Bowl, WFB and Epic as well. All
this from only eight guys.

- New miniature production is slowing down, not stopping. For 2005, BFG still has the Kroot Warsphere, Ork Grunt escort as well as Battlefleet Mars, which will include yet another new battleship, cruiser and light cruiser models. The Epic model range is not yet complete, and some of the other ranges still have kits in the pipe as well. While this is happening, Fanatic will be shifting its focus from commissioning new kits to tightening its support for the current model ranges in all the games they are responsible
for. We all have complained about how lousy rules support is for Battlefleet Gothic. Well, they are fixing it with one fell swoop. GW is NOT a multimillion-dollar company Citibank or Dow Corning- they do NOT have the manpower to keep churning new models while at the same time fixing the support issues they are currently facing. When Fanatic's restructuring as well as all the rules and resources are ironed out, it is planned for now that model production will spool back up. GW loves the game folks; it is not going away.

- The entire current range of Battlefleet Gothic models for all the fleets will remain available for the foreseeable future. This includes the "specialty" BFG models such as the Rogue Trader ships, planetary defenses, transports and ordnance. Yes, we ALL know that to stay fresh, new models have to occasionally be released. However, look at where are now. There are many dozens of different types of official ship classes currently available spread among ten official fleets. This is an absolutely spectacular range of models for ANY game, even if it should never get another model, which is of course not the case as I explained above.

- With Fanatic being web-based, I believe there is a LOT of room for growth, as the writers will no longer be limited to publication and size deadlines to get new material out there for the game. Tyranids, Pirate rules and Rogue Traders leave LOTS of room to expand the game with the current model range as well as opportunities to expand the game with scratch-builds and home-brew ideas. The opportunities are endless, and the future is bright.
This really does look like a painful growing process, but it will result in future support for the game that is more flexible, versatile, and in the long term make it even easier to get new models out since rules for them can be posted for everyone at the speed of the Internet.

Finally, remember that it is a GAME folks! Have fun and ENJOY!!!

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:34 pm 
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Good comments ! ?Especially, ?"but it is still going to hurt a lot," ! :o ?:;):

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 Post subject: Fanatic is evolving
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:39 pm 
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All of the things Nate has said about BFG apply just as well to Epic. In fact Epic has had considerably more design resource spent on it than any other specialist games range game. This is understandable, because we need to get the game back into production.

I am well aware that there are still several new armies required for Epic, and I have a number of 'irons in the fire' as to ways of dealing with this issue. Unfortunately it's going to be a few weeks before I can start to say what those plans are, because we're still sorting out the detail of how they will work at the present time.

In the meantime, please keep in mind that the changes we're talking about will have _no_ effect on our release schedule until well into the summer next year, and that games Workshop is still committed to providing ongoing support for all of the games in the specialist range. Now please guys, lets calm down a bit. If nothing else, remember how much fun we had developing _and playing_ the Epic Armageddon rules before the rulebook was published. At that time there were no models around at all, and that didn't put much of a dint in our enjoyment of the game, now did it? New Epic players are in a much better position than we were then, and this position will only get better in the future as new models and races come on line.

Best regards,

Jervis Johnson
Head Fanatic


From the SG Epic forum.

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