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GW NEARLY DEAD ?

 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 11:58 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
carlisimo109 wrote:
I might end up buying some of these standalone boxed games.

worth keeping in mind you can buy the boards+rules+cards etc cheaply on ebay. Lots of people buy the boxes to re-sell miniatures on ebay, the boards and rules are cheap leftovers. Betrayal at Calth is only £5–10 on ebay that way, just use your own marines or epic stand :spin


Ask about here, too - rather guilty I bought (well, was Christmas gifted) the Calth box for the minis. The knights standalone might be something that people here will split/buy for the models (consider the Imperator titan conversion opportunities there) so you could get the rules to use with warlords a la Adeptus Titanicus.

I haven't bought a GW product, except second-hand/old metals in close to ten years, but some of the standalone games are actually quite fun.


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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 3:53 pm 
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I don't actually think GW are as expensive as some people try to make out. Yes some things are pricey, but I think they can get away with some of it being high as it is a luxury item or an item of convenience (washes for example. I know I can make my own at a fraction of the cost, but having a stock of agrax has helped me immensely in my output of painting models this year)

I should be coming in to a nice pile of cash fairly soon, and out of that I intend to treat myself to some 40k.

Two start collecting boxes (one skitarii, one skaven) will set me back €130. (less if I went to a independent or order them online) Which allow me to knock up a force of 40k scale of my space skaven- That gives me approximately 30 troops (including some special weapons teams), a couple of heros/leaders, a dunecrawler (big vehicle) as well as two other big minis in the skaven box that can be pulled apart for either more 40k space vermin parts, or added to my already owned collection of AoS skaven.

Now I love 6mm, and have brought a lot of cheap 6mm stuff (most of my vermin are made from irregular stuff- which is about 30p per stand- about €0.38c) but some of the other stuff troublemaker/onslaught/forumware is just as pricey as GW, it just doesn't feel so pricey as you get 'more'. Compare GWs single heroes, are around £20, troublemakers skinnner command pack was £20. You need to buy one of each per army, and yet they cost about the same.

A starter army from GW cost around €65-€130 euros now. Two boxes of start collecting will give you way more than you need to start playing, with plenty of spares.

I dont think the 'games' like the knight box are meant to be serious. They know people will buy them for the minis and never touch the rest.

Yes, GW is expensive but so are most wargaming hobbies now. Other companies are not as expensive as GW because they don't have to support brick and mortar shops. GW will still be here in one form or another when these garage operations are long gone. People said they were going to flop with the end times, with the last edition, with the last change of white dwarf and they are still here now.

I don't think people are priced out of GW stuff, it just becomes you are not willing to pay what they are charging now. You cant be priced out of a luxury item, because if you wanted it that badly you would pay for it some way- either by saving or buying it 2nd hand or what ever.

I wont pay €600 for the latest Iphone- simple because I have better things to spend that money on, and my €50 phone does exactly what I need it too. I might not have a job right now- which you might put down to the fact I don't have €600 to spend on a phone- but If I really wanted one, I'm sure I'd find a way to get one.

You can only be priced out of things you actually need and can no longer afford- If they put the price of bread up to €3 tomorrow I would be priced out of it, as I need to eat, but could not afford to pay that much for a staple food.

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:18 pm 
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But this is why GW is in trouble as you have just pointed out the exact thing about the Knights boxed games, people will buy it for the models ;) Which means the games system is expected to be rubbish as with a lot of GW games have been for a while. GW is now a collectors hobby and is expensive for the models they produce.
This is the problem, poor product mixed with expensive product equals failure which is exactly where GW is now.

You speak about GW will be around when all these garage companys close, I would look on the internet about GW history, it actually makes a really good read and opened my eyes about the timeline and how it all began, they where the garage company you speak about, the founders used to have to work in a small office and sleep in a van in the car park at night as they got thrown out of there flat by the landlord as the other tenants got sick of customers knocking on the wrong doors asking for Board games and minatures ;D Great oak trees grow from acorns, everybody has to start somewhere so try not to knock the start ups they will be the most devoted operators and enthusiastic about there product which is why they started ;)

GW was like this once, but it has grown into an aggresive money grabbing machine, to its own down fall though most people have now closed their hands to keep the money. The company has no imagination,

They will fall as i predict, they cant hide the money loss anymore, its all over and the fat lady will sing as the curtains are finally closed for good ;D


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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:29 pm 
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madmagician wrote:
Kyrt wrote:
But while we're reminiscing for 1988 prices, remember when penny sweets cost a penny?

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<edited because no need to offend>

God I hate fanbois.


And I hate mindless hatred based on pettiness.

Quote:
Basically what is happening in this thread (and happens in most of these threads) is that my soup was served cold with a fly in it.

You are a random other customer in the establishment telling me that I have no idea what temperature my soup should be served at and that I should embrace the restaurant's additional ingredient because it is free protein.

go on your way, I have no further business with you.


So we can't post because it doesn't agree with you?

Sorry to say, not every hates GW just because they're GW. I did at one time, but I mellowed a bit after thinking hard on it. They're just another company trying to make money. I don't have to agree with their methods, and if I don't, I don't have to give them anymore of my money. I certainly don't want to see them end up instantly dead, just because some haters want them to die in some sort of "revenge".

It's much preferable if they continue their current trend. Even though a vocal minority absolutely hates AoS, it's a positive step (if not the best step). Bringing back some Specialist Games is a positive thing, too. The stand-alone box game sets are really good as well.

But I don't think anyone here is a "fanboi" of GW...unless you can prove otherwise?

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 5:50 pm 
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Splash

I would not say a minority did not like AOS. It has failed pretty much altogether, by removing the normal fantasy armies and replacing with AOS, Yes this did indeed upset quite a few, as you say the minority that vocally had their say on it. But AOS stuff GW could not even give the stuff away, it has failed completely. ;)

One would almost think that GW has tried to self implode, and if it was not planned they have done a good job unitentionally ;D

Not the first time that corps have sent top brass in to destroy a company then to buy at a rock bottom price and set the new ball rolling with a decent game plan ;)


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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:56 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:15 pm 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


Hi!

One of my favorite lines. It is so true.... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:38 pm 
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This talk is pointless and the same bs as in warseer etc forums. Come on..is GW really a personal threat to someone? They do great minis, ok games and keep the competitors on toe tips and needing to improve their quality. Without GW the setting would be different and not only in good way. We need GW for balance like it or not. Stop whining and keep gaming

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 Post subject: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:40 pm 
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And sorry the harsh language, no offence ment. Ive just heard this same thing about 15 years in some form..

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 8:51 pm 
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AoS is the best thing to happen in years!

It kickstarted Kings of War groups all over the world and showed people what a proper game of fantasy battles is like.

Seriously, there are many points of similarity between KoW and EA - simple rules, units built with a short statline and generic special rules, a focus on movement and objective-based scenarios over leveraging your units special capabilities, all the way to community led but company assisted development, like Epic was in the glory days of Specialist Games.


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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:20 pm 
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splash wrote:
madmagician wrote:
Kyrt wrote:
But while we're reminiscing for 1988 prices, remember when penny sweets cost a penny?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


<edited because no need to offend>

God I hate fanbois.


And I hate mindless hatred based on pettiness.

Quote:
Basically what is happening in this thread (and happens in most of these threads) is that my soup was served cold with a fly in it.

You are a random other customer in the establishment telling me that I have no idea what temperature my soup should be served at and that I should embrace the restaurant's additional ingredient because it is free protein.

go on your way, I have no further business with you.


So we can't post because it doesn't agree with you?

Sorry to say, not every hates GW just because they're GW. I did at one time, but I mellowed a bit after thinking hard on it. They're just another company trying to make money. I don't have to agree with their methods, and if I don't, I don't have to give them anymore of my money. I certainly don't want to see them end up instantly dead, just because some haters want them to die in some sort of "revenge".

It's much preferable if they continue their current trend. Even though a vocal minority absolutely hates AoS, it's a positive step (if not the best step). Bringing back some Specialist Games is a positive thing, too. The stand-alone box game sets are really good as well.

But I don't think anyone here is a "fanboi" of GW...unless you can prove otherwise?




My anger is directed to how he dismissed my concerns as invalid wit a high degree of snark (the penny candy comment) and spoke to my economic literacy as one would a child.

You both have done exactly what you accuse me of doing. I express frustration and concern and you attack. That is the key behavior of a fanboi. I have seen it on the 'net and in my adult life for well over 30 years. My concerns are my concerns and they are real to me, either accept that or attack, it is your choice and yours alone. Berating me and talking down to me is highly likely to turn my opinion around, but well reasoned discourse will.

But let me reiterate my points -

Customer service 101: The customer is always right
Customer Service 201: Perception is reality
Business 101: The buyer sets the price
Sales 101: Get your product into whatever hands will buy it

In short form, if you anger and disappoint enough semi-regular customers, you will run out of money. If your price is too high for your target market (12-25 year-olds, i guess?) you will die as a company.

I have an overarching frustration with the creative industry and their valiant efforts to not sell their product. GW is constantly making limited edition stuff! Why? Shouldn't they be trying to push sales volumes higher? Wouldn't it be logical to aggressively license your IP to dominate other scales as well? It goes on and on, but as a salesperson, I can't for the life of me understand why you would spend more time keeping your product out of the hands of potential customers rather than making sure ithey buy!

That is it, no more, no less.

You are welcome to disagree with my take, but you are not welcome to discount my frustration or snark at me like I am a child.

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:41 pm 
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madmagician wrote:
You are welcome to disagree with my take, but you are not welcome to discount my frustration or snark at me like I am a child.


You need to step away from this discussion. Anger is not appropriate at any point, nor is name calling.


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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Okaaaayyyy.... So if you're done arguing i have a question that noone can answer for sure but maybe have some ideas about.

I know people have approached GW trying to buy or "rent" the liscense for E:a. GW has always turned it down. Why? I'm not so familiar with business practises and find it very hard to see any negative effects of letting a third party carry on developing the game and paying GW liscense money.
I've seen some short answers on it before but i would like to get it better explained to me. What am I missing. Why does GW have such a diehard stance towards killing a product that (a small part) of their customer base wants to buy??

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:03 pm 
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mordoten wrote:
Okaaaayyyy.... So if you're done arguing i have a question that noone can answer for sure but maybe have some ideas about.

I know people have approached GW trying to buy or "rent" the liscense for E:a. GW has always turned it down. Why? I'm not so familiar with business practises and find it very hard to see any negative effects of letting a third party carry on developing the game and paying GW liscense money.
I've seen some short answers on it before but i would like to get it better explained to me. What am I missing. Why does GW have such a diehard stance towards killing a product that (a small part) of their customer base wants to buy??


I think it is the miniatures side they won't licence, at all, ever. Technically the FFG games are not miniatures, just board game tokens (i know, i know, 40k minis are just tokens in a game as well, it's not my semantics). They will license computer games, card games, board games, merchandise, but miniatures are not up for debate.

they'd probably sell you a license for an 'epic' computer game, but not 6mm 40k miniatures.

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 Post subject: Re: GW NEARLY DEAD ?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:20 am 
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epic wrote:
Splash

I would not say a minority did not like AOS.


I know you wouldn't say that. However, it's only the vocal minority I'm pointing out. I know many people that don't have a problem with it.

Quote:
It has failed pretty much altogether, by removing the normal fantasy armies and replacing with AOS, Yes this did indeed upset quite a few, as you say the minority that vocally had their say on it. But AOS stuff GW could not even give the stuff away, it has failed completely. ;)


One man's "failure" is another man's "change". I don't fear change too much, I wasn't emotionally invested in Fantasy in the first place. The new setting, in many opinions, is a good one.

It's not Star Wars, or 40K, but it's gotten me interested.

Quote:
One would almost think that GW has tried to self implode, and if it was not planned they have done a good job unitentionally ;D


Why would "one" think that? I don't think that. Many here don't think that.

Quote:
Not the first time that corps have sent top brass in to destroy a company then to buy at a rock bottom price and set the new ball rolling with a decent game plan ;)


If that's happening. I don't see that happening.

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