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Return of specialist games

 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:45 am 
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KTG17 wrote:
I guess it depends on how GW views the long term support of doing Epic. If they want to expand it from the initial box set (whichever it may include), then I imagine it would have to include more 40k designed units than 30k

Hahahahaha long term support. Well, it's possible that if sales are good we'll see "expansions" but can we really expect it to be a continuous game in the same sense as 40K? I doubt it. Some support after the initial box, maybe, but long term? Interestingly though, if they do want to allow the possibility of expansions, then they would obviously need to continue selling the basic game set. Which would be a departure from the "Limited edition! Buy it now!" style they have been following for their sideline games in the recent past.

However I agree about Heresy. Seems to be a lot of extrapolation going on: "FW have done lots of heresy lately, so Epic will be heresy". I don't really see that those two things are related. Nobody is suggesting we'll get Heresy Blood Bowl (I hope). Maybe as a titan game Heresy would just about have enough variety in the models, but at infantry scale the models would be all but identical. Yet as a titan vs titan heresy game, it'd be heresy without Astartes. That doesn't make much sense to me.

Nah, the heresy fluff might be vaguely interesting (I've read far too many of the novels of late) but as a game concept it's pretty... boring. I personally have no interest in red vs blue in this day and age. I still think it will be a primarily titan game, and I hope the box set will include two different races.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:56 pm 
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You know, speaking of Bloodbowl... its kinda set in the Warhammer world right? I mean, all the races are there and look kinda interchangable. And the early versions of GW games always had some humor. But with the old world gone, and everything looking like Age of Sigmar, you think that it will be redone to fit the look and feel of where the world is headed now?

I have to admit that it would probably look ridiculous. But everything is dark and serious now, while Bloodbowl has been the opposite. I don't know much about AoS, but based on what I know, Bloodbowl as we know it doesn't fit.

And the same could be said for Epic too. A lot would have to be changed to look and feel like the rest of the newer 40k universe I think.

The same for Battlefleet Gothic. I doubt we'd get the same models.

So I guess if you are going to be changing models for these games, you'll have to change the rulebooks to show their images, and if you are going to do that, you'll want to tweak some things. The next thing you know, these could be very different games from what we are used to.


Last edited by KTG17 on Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:57 pm 
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Good lord the negativity.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Lady Atia if you read her hints over on the Bolter and Chainsword thread has suggested lots of positive stuff. She hinted that a BFG game might be more likely to be a Heresy era one and that there would be products sold that weren't just the main boxsets.

So it will be a sea change compared with the SH2009, Dreadfleet, SH2014, Assassin Force, Betrayal at Calth things we've had so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:17 pm 
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Never heard of Lady Atia but everyone there seems to respect her word. So basically it sounds like GW is returning to its roots and starting out with the Heresy, which is fine. It should cost them less and hopefully encourage expanding the game if its well received.

So, if its 6mm, has a mix of infantry, vehicles, and at least a titan or two per side, then I am in. If its not 6mm, then I am out.

Using AT/SM1 as an example, if you took half the marines/rhinos/land raiders from SM1, and added 2-4 titans... would be a killer box set.

I also wonder, and hope, the box set will come with some new terrain. I can't imagine many new players having 6mm stuff, and its always nice that GW included buildings in the previous editions. Some newer style Epic 40k kind would be awesome.

Marines in different poses, and special characters like Chaplins would be nice too.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:24 pm 
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Given that the department seems to be in the process of being setting up (GW hiring people currently) and seems to have leaked out via an overexcited manager I'm dubious about these hard details about what is coming

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:42 pm 
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You know I was just thinking... maybe people are getting tired of the range of games GW has done lately. I mean, if they aren't doing a great job bringing in new players for their big three games (and i am including Hobbit here only because the Betrayal game is so new), I can see them trying to go back and get people excited about other products. I imagine at this point there aren't many veteran players buying much for their armies, and I don't know how many of those massive Knights and others are selling. I have to be honest I am not interested in anything bigger than a 40k Land Raider. I just dont like the game that much to spend that kind of money. And I am sure while there are others that would, I am not sure new players would. Its a big investment. So unless veteran players are expanding on the armies they collect, new gamers are probably buying the basic sets while GW is hoping those with established armies upgrade them with these big units. I can't help but wonder how many actually sell. And where do they go with 40k from here? I think its being bled dry to be honest.

So I can believe the rumors if this was a typical company, but GW does some things I dont understand either. But if rebooting Epic, BFG, Blood Bowl, etc, gets players interested then I hope they do it, because I am spending far more money here and on ebay than I am on GW, and I know that ultimately hurts me in return. If GW produced the games I wanted, I would go back to buying stuff off their site. And its been a long, long time since i did that. I think the last thing I ordered from them, was the EpicA Avatar set. I have picked up random stuff here and there from stores, but its just about all second hand stuff for GW's retired games.

Maybe someone at GW has done the math and realized they are missing out on a lot. It doesnt seem like the previous CEO was a fan of the games, whereas the new guy might be.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:59 pm 
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I wonder if 40k is simply becoming saturated with units and models. GW feels obligated to add a unit or two with every new codex, and it’s reaching a point of excess. With so many niches filled they’ve expanded into bigger units, but where to next? Scaling back on 40k releases without laying people off requires branching out.

They’ve probably also noticed how much value the 40k IP has outside of the core game. And that skirmish games and spacefleet games outside of it are gaining ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 1:13 am 
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Well my Epic stuff has literally not been out of the box since 2007 so it would be nice to unearth all those old treasures (though I fear for their condition after the 5 house moves we've done in that time). More importantly, since 2007 I have been training my son up in a range of games so he'll be interested in playing that too I'll bet. And a 30k project would be just the business. I always wanted to use the original Horus Heresy boardgame as the campaign system and then fight the battles using Epic. Sweet

Then again, I'd love some new Space Hulk stuff too while they are at it. Just saying :-)


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:28 pm 
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Well for me, The "Betrayal" boxed set pulled me back into 28mm a bit. I always loved the old MK 2/3/4/5 armours and the Heresy fluff overall.

On the other hand, if I want to throw down an army, I want it to be huge, that has always been my attraction to Epic.

I also loved the RP/growth aspects and small squad of necromunda.

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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Oh! Oh, Necromunda. What I wouldn't give for a group of obsessive terrain builders and players willing to face down my Escher again. I loved that game.

Come to think of it, I loved that, Blood Bowl, BFG, Epic and Mighty Empires all more than the 'core' games.

Specialist Games, please come home.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:02 am 
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carlisimo109 wrote:
I wonder if 40k is simply becoming saturated with units and models. GW feels obligated to add a unit or two with every new codex, and it’s reaching a point of excess. With so many niches filled they’ve expanded into bigger units, but where to next? Scaling back on 40k releases without laying people off requires branching out.

They’ve probably also noticed how much value the 40k IP has outside of the core game. And that skirmish games and spacefleet games outside of it are gaining ground.


I think you have pretty much got it spot on with this comment, you can only flog a dead horse for so long,
I looked a few day days ago at the GW site and it is bare as bones. They just cant keep building on 40k
for much longer as the models are getting more lame in IMO, you just have to look at that wolf sleigh model
what an absolute load of rubbish.

I used to purchase new 28mm in my teenage years for models that I liked the look of and nothing intrests
or inspires me to put paint to anything on that site.
However had a look on the FW and was tempted by the Gretchin crew they seemed the only minatures that seemed to have character to me personally and would also make good blood bowl conversions. Bring back gorka morka and I may buy that too ;)

Also had a look at what other people are discussing on the web regarding epic, It seems a few are saying
bring it back in 15mm but most are saying that size is just not worth it, quite a few are saying 10mm but
thankfully most are saying 6mm as they find this best scale to represent epic for use with walkers, flyers
etc. Fingers crossed I hope GW listens ::)

I also had a look at what companys are now on the heels of GW and was quite suprized at the quality,
support and look of these other units in 28mm scale anyway. so no wonder they looking at trying to
get back into the old systems to get people back on gw side.

The vast majority seemed to say that they would start using GW again if they started bringing back the
old game systems and supported them,


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:49 am 
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I went into the GW store recently (in Australia) to ask about this. The guy replied that he had been informed that the rumours are true. He said that they had been shown a job posting which is due up in december, for specialist games.

What he said was that forge world wouldn't exist as it is now and was being folded into the specialist games company which would still be an offshoot of GW. Gams that were specifically being looked at were battlefleet gothic, necromunda, mordheim, blood bowl and epic (though no mention of scale, though he seemed to think it would be same scale). In addition middle earth ranges were being dropped from GW and would be incorporated into specialist games. Things currently done by forge world that are 40k or WH related would be switched over to GW, so GW would do ONLY 40k and WH/AOS. GW could do box sets still, as long as they were interchangeable with either of those ranges.

Specialist games would not be available through GW outlets, but through (and his words) 'more modern marketing methods that games workshop has traditionally resisted.' (internet model?)

Any fruition would be between two to three years before anything happened, at least three years before epic comes out, and would definately have boxed sets available. he believed they would be batched and depending on quickness of sales wether a new batch would be released.

Given that this comes from the storefront where the decisions are not made, I take it with a grain of salt, but am certainly wishlisting for boxed sets of any existing races. I dont really want to see new ones until the current ones are properly supported.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:45 pm 
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I sure hope your GW store chap is wrong and Epic does not take 3 years to come a reality :o

I know we cant expect things straight away but I want to see some games coming back pretty
pronto just for the fact that it will show that GW is serious about bringing back specialist games.

If its three years its a joke as I would not see the point in GW even attempting this it would just not
be worth it, as games like BFG will by then of blown out of the water by such companys like hawk
games etc.

The problem is rumours as one is going about at the moment that they already have a boxed set
BLOOD BOWL ready to roll out onto the shelves ::)

I can understand them not wanting to bring out anything straight away with the recent release
of that heresy 28mm game.

I wish now that they had not said anything and then one day just amazed us with new box sets. :)

One thing I would love them to do though is what I would call the Nostalgia line, that would re release
the early 28mm orcs,beakys and other minatures. Cast to order they would make a good profit as plenty of
people on ebay pay stupid money for the old minatures. I wonder what happened to all the moulds
from the 80s and early 90s ?

I am just going to forget that they even posted that memo now and pretend its false until I see
boxed game pictures and release dates in print.


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 Post subject: Re: Return of specialist games
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 5:20 pm 
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A lot of evidence points to someone jumping the gun on this info. If so three years is a possibility alright.

My problem with that is that this means that it will be difficult to get GW fans to try other games for the next few years until they see whatcomes out of GW. Maybe I'm totally wrong, but it seems possible to me that people who have been playing warhammer and find it crap are less likely to move into a full wargame from another company while they wait to see what great new thing GW has that they can support instead of Age of Sigmar, or some other company.

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