LotR license was renewed and new releases will be designed via this part of FW. Also since this is FW, they likely will be more direct than anything as the rest of FW products are.

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If it does happen, and it appears to be at the planning stage now then it will be direct only as one of the reasons for AoS was to cut down on in-store ranges.

Best case IMO is that Epic gets a box set at some point with some plastics and that helps generate an influx of players interested in Epic.

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It seems to me there's a lot of misplaced optimism here.

Spread that enthusiasm at your FLGS. It may be of better use.

But I do hope y'all get your wish. As for me I won't be holding or wasting my breath on GW.

Pat

Fascinating to watch the growth and hyperbole in this thread

I remember things like the Battle of Five Armies blisters being Direct Only and that more recently was the fate of Finecast and then the larger Fantasy range.

I imagine that if this did come it would only appear in stores if it had a boxed game like Space Hulk / Dreadfleet / Calth but after the splash it would be direct only.

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Brace yourself! Lawsuits are coming. This is also a legit way for them to pursue all the people in the grey market.
This may be pretty bad for the game alltogether. Overall I am not that overjoyed...

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I hope GW would not be that stupid to just release the minatures as they would look terrible now compared
to what can be achieved, Also plastics would nowdays be easy for GW given they use lots of factorys in China.
If I was a conspiracy theorist I would say you never know someone may of had a hand in making sure the tmg
line did not get made at the factory very small chance but you never know !

Regards Largo Ws last post, yes this has been coming up a lot on the recent news and a lot of people are saying they could be doing this just to keep the hands on the IP given that they no longer make or have shown no intrest in specialist games.... from a legal point of view this sort of makes sense and I would not put it past gw legal team as at the moment they would get laughed out of court, but if they made an attempt that even just included an expression about bringing games back and not even making anything it gives them a plausible
cause to start picking out the greyware,

Lets hope this does not happen and they just release a few games and keep a few people happy.

nope. 100% derivative work. we don't own anything. technically they're in the green if they told us to take it down. It's not worth it to do it and too easy to be cheeky and do things like call the Rhino a Unicornis and they can't do squat (har har) about it.


totes


and that's an IF. If you step back and look at what is going on there's a logic path to follow. The BaC is a hybrid board game with minis fully usable in 30/40k if so inclined and absolutely target the same type of market that things like Deadzone, AvP, and formerly, Dust, did/do. How effective this is of course will be open for debate and time will tell (the general look to things has been somewhat positive on the set and sales appear to be very good). I suspect attempting to counter x-wing/armada/halo/FSA will occur with some forms of mining AI and BFG for something new and boxed set9s) produced I suspect (or at least are having a strong look at them). I could be wrong but epic in some form seems far off and in all likelihood would actually be not what we expect or know now.


Not really. Anything infringing would be/could be C&D'd already so this has little bearing on that whatsoever. They're just as able to lawyer up on anyone hypothetically making debiggerized items regardless of any "new from the dead" Specialist Games. Now that being said, they may chose to pay closer attention but they've already lost big on the CHS debacle so are likely to be more gun-shy. That does mean though that 3rd parties should be clear about where they're pulling inspiration from and not use TM names and we as a community need to be careful about not referring to things as "XYZ's Tau/DE/AdMech" because frankly they're not and it's irresponsible for us to use those terms.


Actually GW plastics are done in house and also, ironaically their factory set up is well photographed and documented in industry trade mags (the injection plastics industry, not wargaming) and easy to pull up using search engines. They did attempt way back to outsource but combinations of quality control and IP theft caused them to invest heavily on their internal capacity (actually this capacity is the #1 value of the GW plc, not their IP). Now FW on the other hand DOES have a strong presence in China for some parts of the line(s) due to the use of resin and some of the time consuming techniques (such as grav fed resin) that are used for big stuff (as I understand it) like titans. Probably the reason you can get China forge items that are better than the FW stuff


That's not how copyright works in the US/UK/EU whatsoever. They don't lose any IP nor copyright (well not for life + 70 years). This has NOTHING to do with maintaining a copyright.

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Yes that IP argument is a bit of a red herring from a legal standpoint.

There -is- a concept that a company cannot simply block use of an IP with no intention to market it or license it themselves, but it is quite far from the situation we have and there is no need for a company to have any direct and quoteable plans. For instance it is enough for it to somehow weaken a brand or brand association. Clearly GW could choose to develop a product at any time, and they would be damaged if there was already something available from a third party.

It is a far bigger risk for GW if they did not enforce their IP - there really have been cases where a company's enforcement claims have been rejected because they had not previously enforced their rights: ie they had turned a blind eye to others but want to stop one particular company. That is why they continue to enforce their rights on material they do not currently produce.

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Well, if all this happens, I hope Epic stays in 6mm. If it goes to 10mm, I wont buy it.

I am sure the models would be awesome. Actually, check that. I hate the new 're-imaged' look of the Horus Heresy marines. Not that they had to remain the beakies that I grew up with, but I really don't like the marines in the new Horus Heresy boardgame, and as much as I love the Heresy, I have no intention of buying it. More of those in 10mm? No thanks. But at 6mm I doubt anyone would notice the detail. I am sure the quality would be amazing in 10mm, especially for the vehicles and titans, but I prefer 6mm.

The biggest problem I have with 10mm isn't just the scale and making every model bigger, but it also makes the table smaller.

When I got into Epic, you didn't necessarily need a huge table to play games on. You could easily play AT/SM1 on a 3 foot by 2 foot table for a small battle. Now the norm is 6 by 4, and that is fine, but that's with 6mm scale minis. I already have a huge problem with Epic 40k and Epic A movement and weapon ranges, and I am going to be even more irritated with them kept around the same with the minis getting bigger, which I assume will happen to allow for more movement on a 6 by 4 table.

My love for Epic was the scale and the combination of different units in 3D buildings, rivers, and forests, from a birds eye point of view. I had never seen a game like it before (although there could have been). Making the models bigger would no doubt make them more fun to build, paint, and customize, but as a whole, it would shrink the environment down to the point I would feel like its just a little version of 40k, which I don't want. Not to mention make the armies more expensive to collect. And all the terrain we have now becomes obsolete too. And if they introduce Titans at that scale, again, the models would be amazing, but the board becomes even smaller. Lots of other games have infantry now. What sets Epic apart is the look of the Titans and Vehicles we love alongside them on a grand scale. Mess with that, and its no longer Epic.

I really, really, hope that the guys doing this, have the same kind of appreciation for the early years as we do, and I am sure if they did a Horus Heresy Epic game, it wouldn't just be because that's the hot theme right now, but maybe its also tipping their hat to how it all started in AT/SM1. It is an easier way for them to create the product cheaper, and if its successful, roll out some expansions. But who knows what they are going to do.

Just please, please don't make it 10mm.

Legion 4

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Ummm all those patterns were designed back in the Rogue Trader days. I know, I had them and thunder warriors to boot. Not saying you have to like them, just they're not new whatsoever. Actually I think the positive response to FW HH work has been the exact fact that they created modernized old RT era models and designs. [shrugs]


Now THIS is what I think we'd see as a one off limited box set from them, not Epic (as we know it).

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Interesting developments and discussion. It seems that this rumour is gathering strength, with more Australian sources confirming it, reliable rumour hounds on Warseer and someone over on SpecArms who 'knows a guy'. I am inclined to believe that this is, broadly, true and in the works. I doubt its a legal issue. The thing about renewals is with trademarks, not copyright. Trademarks must be renewed and 'active' for a period or are forfeit. But many of the terms in these games are also from the core 40K universe and so rereleasing the game doesnt actually impact on them anyway.

If this does happen, I think that the most likely avenue would be a one-shot boxed set, with a limited run of supporting minis from FW. In addition, I strongly suspect that we will see a Horus Heresy set with loyalists vs traitor Marines, the Imperial Guard from FW and very little else. Give it a 24 month sales window and pack it up and move on to the next SG game. I think that GW have been burned too often into supporting games that they simply dont find profitable or core, and wont make that mistake again. Even Space Hulk, which should still be on shelves now, was a one hit release.

I suspect that we will see simplified rules which are much faster to play and lack the depth of EA, and a brand new set of minis, probably also simplified - think a base of Marines as a single piece, one piece Rhinos and Land Raiders. This would not only harken back to the original core set but also follow GWs move towards simpler, faster playing rules and easier playing pieces with less tiny options.

Its an interesting time, but I dont think that any new Epic set will replace or even compete with Epic Armageddon, in the way that AoS doesnt replace or compete with WHFB. It is my hope - and I will remain positive - that this new set will be an excellent gateway to Epic Armageddon. I can imagine a one shot release with Marines and IG, which opens the door to a lot of players getting interested and hooked on Epic for the background and scale, and then looking for something with a little more meat, depth and scope, and with more forces and options available.

This could be a very good thing for Epic Armageddon.

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