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GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films

 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:13 pm 
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We're also only seeing one side of this discussion

Who knows what the real issue was or what the folks working on Damnatus said or wanted that caused this response.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:04 pm 
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Most of the IP rules are reasonable - i.e. by all means make a website containing artwork/models/background but make sure it is credited and not official-looking.

The rule about tatoos is extremely funny. Exactly what are they going to do about it? Sue you for your arm breaching IP?

Some of the wording is pretty funny. If I make terrain and incorporate their IP, I'm "probably" okay as long as it's for my own personal use! That's good to know!


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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:04 pm 
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This has hit Slashdot now and, being /., I've not read TFA before posting this.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:20 pm 
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Colonel, it may be just me, but ... what?

Typical GW mess - give the go-ahead and change your mind later.

It still sucks big donkeys all the same. Damnatus looked like it might be kinda fun, and some of it looks really good.


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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:39 am 
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GW could also make a standard contract with fan moviemakers.

1 A4 would be enough to secure their IP but let the movie go ahead.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:14 am 
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The problem is that German copyright law does not allow people to sign away certain legal rights.

This was the issue. Even if the Damnatus folks wanted to make a deal with GW the German legal system would have afforded them certain inalienable rights that GW would not be able to restrict or remove.

Hence GW pulling out of the deal and making this blanket statement about fan films

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:53 am 
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While I acknowledge their right to protect their IP, any advertising is good advertising. And if its free, all the better.  

And if they have endorsed it until now then change their mind, I would be claiming recompense for costs.  Whats more, I would win.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:35 am 
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I think that the more coherent argument on Warseer was that the characters in the movie are original, based on a shared background. So, Damnatus owns the image for these characters, and potentially could produce miniatures in their likeness, or license them out. While most people are sure that they would not do this, other companies are waiting in the wings for a loophole like this.

That said, other alternatives have been suggested, such as GW actually buying the movie for one Euro, putting their copyright on it and distributing it - or even paying Damnatus one Euro to distribute.

The thing about tatoos is actually established. Disney have the same restriction about not allowing use of their image on tatoos - although I dont think that they would literally sue an arm and a leg!

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:04 am 
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(pixelgeek @ Jul. 12 2007,06:14)
QUOTE
This was the issue. Even if the Damnatus folks wanted to make a deal with GW the German legal system would have afforded them certain inalienable rights that GW would not be able to restrict or remove.

I am really curious what GW is afraid of. The only inalienable rights are:
- nobody can edit your creation without your consent
- nobody can claim they made it
- only the creator may decide how his creation is used
- the creator owns the rights to his creations until 70 years after his death

The creator can still sign off the usage rights as normal.

Just one signed contract to cover these points and they would be fine. Plus GW could have just given informal agreement and then tolerated the movie without pressing charges on the creators.

There are many precendeces, this is not the first fan movie made in Germany.

I certainly doubt that there are companies waiting for a loophole. We already got enough loopholes in Russia et al and the copyright law itself.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:25 pm 
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(Morg @ Jul. 12 2007,10:04)
QUOTE
Just one signed contract to cover these points and they would be fine.

Even the Damnatus guys admitted that it's nowhere near that simple.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:45 pm 
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Why does GW have to protect "their" IP like a greedy dragon?

Because most of it is general enough that they really cannot do anything about it.  Really the majority of GW's IP can be replicated without even telling GW or asking permission because they base their universe on historical or previous fictional examples.  So they have to protect what they have stolen so what they did can not be repeated!

Example:  I am going to create a science-fiction universe with the following factions: Space Orcs, Imperial Humans, Anarchist/Rebelling/Barbarian Humans, Space Elves, Communist High-Tech Aliens, Bug-like Aliens, Robotic Aliens (did I miss any?)  Within the Imperial Human faction there would be the Imperial Army, Space Navy, and Space Marines mirrored in the Rebelling Humans.  The Imperial Humans may also have an Inquisition .
Now for this universe I have drawn on the following things: Tolkien, the Holy Roman Empire, Starship Troopers, the movie Alien, Terminator, and Anime.  None of it is based on GW's IP, but it resembles it significantly.

So the estates of Ridley Scott (Alien), James Cameron (Terminator), Robert A. Heinlein (Starship Troopers), and Tolkien should sue GW!

THEMES
While we are likely to be happy for you to create your own desktop themes based upon our IP, please do not use our trademarks in those themes. In other words, do not use our logos and symbols, but please do draw your own version of a Wood Elf or Tyranid.

WTF?  I can not draw my own version of a Wood Elf?  So shouldn't GW sue Wizards of the Coast for these?  Those are Elves, some of them wood elves or elves that live in woods!

Any game or mod must be a "total conversion." In other words, you must not use our intellectual property (logos, images, names etc.) in relation to the worlds, names, logos, or images of any other company. For example, you cannot place our Space Marines in a Disney total conversion using the Unreal engine, but you could make a TC solely using Space Marines with the Unreal engine. This is, of course, assuming that you have permission to use the Unreal engine.

Little does GW realize that a lot of the things that have 'Total Conversions' have these things called SDKs, cause they would never allow such a thing!

ANIMATIONS
We would probably not have a problem with anyone creating animations based upon our intellectual property ? as long as there is no commercial connection to that creation. Again, please be careful of the language used and the topics discussed.
So if we made Damnatus a cartoon you could get away with it?

Things that GW has trademarked that I supposedly can not use without their permission:
Dreadnought
Rhino
Cassius
Lysander
and plenty others.

So GW is forbidding the release of Damnatus based on the fact that it is advertised as begin directly related to GW's IP.

The work around - remove the direct link between Damnatus and GW's IP.  While this may seem difficult at first, it probably would not be .  They could say it is inspired by GW's IP, but not based on it especially if the characters and places in the movie do not relate to various fictional characters of GW.  An Inquisitor investigating a cult of dark gods worshipers in a space-spanning human empire, sounds like moving middle age history into a space setting, easily original work.

But the double eagle on the weapons is owned by GW!  Or maybe just a futuristic Holy Roman Empire symbol - here.  


In the end GW needs to look at its sources of inspiration and realize that they have not really created anything new except how all of these ideas interact (maybe) and that any single instance of supposed infringement on GW's IP could have easily been created based on its own sources of inspiration.

That was a long rant - sorry.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:35 pm 
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Well, I think that GW is relying on several things;

1) That if they lay down their own copyright "law", others will obey, lest they suffer the wrath of GW's legal - whether this would actually stand up in court or not. It would certainly work for most websites, etc.

2) Related; as a company, they have a serious legal team. I wouldn't like to bet that they aren't right, or that they couldn't push their case through.

Honestly, I think you're right, and that much of GW's background is so derivative that you could almost certainly make a case if you took it seriously. It would be a non-trivial thing to do, though, as GW would fight such a suit tooth and nail because if they allowed it through, it would open up all sorts of loopholes for rivals to make rip-off models.


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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:09 pm 
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I bet they cant make you have a tattoo removed.

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 Post subject: GW forbids all Fanwork-Movies & Films
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:19 pm 
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The thing is... as a anime fan I know that if something gets hit by a Cease and Desist for copyright/license infringement, you will probably be able to get it off torrents, It is even very probable it will have been leaked by the group that was subbing it originally on purpose, I mean try proving that it was them who leaked it... Happened with DEATH NOTE, 2 episodes before the end the Fan group that was subbing it got hit by a Cease and Desist, about 5 days later a sub appeared on line by a mysterious group just called C&D. Strangely this happened before but the style was very different. I think C&D is just a fake name used by any group that needs it at the time.

Back on topic

I seriously think that if it gets halted by GW then it will just get leaked anyway it's finished.





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