Marine section |
|
Steve54
|
Post subject: Marine section  Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:50 pm |
|
| Hybrid |
 |
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
|
|
After looking at the eldar section in the EA focus HQ area and seeing the ongoing development for army lists for many of the craftworlds I was wondering whether it might be an idea to have a similar marine development section?
At the moment their are official Codex and White Scar lists, Blood Angel and Black Templar in the vault and fanlists for Imperial Fists, Dark Angels and Space Wolves +?.
While not being radically different from the codex all these lists offer a little bit of flavour and diversity but at the moment are very scattered and with little or no development or even an army champion AFAIK.
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion
|
|
| Top |
|
 |
|
nealhunt
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:44 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
|
|
The official and SG vault lists have champions (except Templars, which was a fairly recent step-down). Fan lists obviously don't have "official" champions. Cybershadow has only added sections as they have been requested by the respective champions, so there is no section.
====
That's not meant to discourage adding one, just an explanation as to why there is not one currently.
_________________
Neal
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
CyberShadow
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:50 pm |
|
| Swarm Tyrant |
 |
 |
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9348
Location: Singapore
|
|
Hi. Thanks for your post. Up to a point, I agree with you. However, I dont want to cloud the difference between 'official' development on the lists by the Champions and fan-driven support.
Therefore, the stance that I have taken is that if an official army champion wants a discussion board then one is created in the Focus HQ section. If people want to discuss other developments and ideas then I totally support this, and ask that they are made in the Epic Rules > Epic Armageddon forum.
If we get a lot of fan driven posts on a specific race, then I would consider creating a Marine specific board in the 'Epic Rules' section.
Thanks, and all the best.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Bombot
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:22 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
 |
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Reading, UK
|
|
Personally, I don?t see the need for a Dark Angels list. Their organisation is slightly different, but the basic troops are basically the same. Certainly I don?t think differences would be notable at Epic level (barring the ability to field 100 terminators, which the basic Codex list can anyway!)
_________________
"The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
nealhunt
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:28 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
|
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm
Posts: 9617
Location: Nashville, TN, USA
|
|
Ravenwing Speeder and Bike formations would be appropriate, possibly with some small bonus similar to what the White Scars have.
I'm not sure how you would balance that, though. White Scars have a couple drawbacks, as do the Black Templars and Blood Angels test lists. I can't think of a way to reflect the negative side of DA background at Epic scale, but then I'm not terribly familiar with them.
_________________
Neal
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Bombot
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:48 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Reading, UK
|
|
Yeah you could adopt the White Scars list if you fancied going Ravenwing-heavy, but on the whole I think the White Scars list is inappropriate. It?s a fast attack list and regular Dark Angel troops are a bit more shooty than Codex marines in 40k (it seems).
Basically I will be happy enough using regular bikes as Ravenwing bikes, even if the Ravenwing are a bit better in 40k.
For Epic scale battles I think it?s unlikely that the Dark Angels would be hunting Fallen so I don?t see Titan or Navy support as inappropriate.
_________________
"The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
wargame_insomniac
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:04 pm |
|
| Purestrain |
|
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 6:42 pm
Posts: 3305
Location: West Yorkshire, UK
|
| Quote (Bombot @ 08 Nov. 2005 (20:48)) | | For Epic scale battles I think it?s unlikely that the Dark Angels would be hunting Fallen so I don?t see Titan or Navy support as inappropriate. |
Maybe but it does reflect the Dark Angels near paranoid mistrust of outsiders.
If they get given special abilities for the Deathwing/Ravenwing formations then it is only fair that they have some disadvantages as well. Otherwise noone would bother playing basic vanilla Codex SM list.
Cheers
James
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tas
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:10 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
|
The only other DA special I can think of is tank heavy "Ironwing" formations mentioned in older fluff as in use during the HHeresy period.
_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Legion 4
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:40 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36984
Location: Ohio - USA
|
Tas ... you have copies of my DA and SW TO&Es ... I believe that is the way it should be done ! Based on SM1 standards + !  
_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tas
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:05 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
|
yes I do...and I think you did a masterful job.
Wnat I want to do is revamp those TO&Es for EA formations.
For Ironwing, I'd use something along the lines of 3 x LRaider Dets plus a Command LR det upgrade as a 13 vehicle LR company
_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
primarch
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:05 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
 |
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
|
|
Hi!
I sometimes wonder if it is a worthwhile project to produce an updated "heresy-era" TOE. Based on the SM1, but expanded and updated.
Primarch
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tas
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:11 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
| Quote (primarch @ 10 Nov. 2005 (00:05)) | Hi!
I sometimes wonder if it is a worthwhile project to produce an updated "heresy-era" TOE. Based on the SM1, but expanded and updated.
Primarch |
Definately! 
_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Bombot
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:13 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Reading, UK
|
| Quote (wargame_insomniac @ 09 Nov. 2005 (14:04)) | | If they get given special abilities for the Deathwing/Ravenwing formations then it is only fair that they have some disadvantages as well. Otherwise noone would bother playing basic vanilla Codex SM list. |
Oh I wouldn?t dispute that. I don?t want army list power creep. But my point is that the Deathwing and Ravenwing are only very slightly more powerful in 40k than regular terminators or bike units. At Epic scale I think one could argue that the difference isn?t big enough to warrant any difference in stats.
With regards to the allies thing, maybe I?m just stuck on the Angels of Death fluff that had them mistrust those liable to be poking their noses into the Dark Angels? business. Plus they didn?t like aliens. Titans and Navy don?t fall into either of those camps. The new 40k fluff might be ok at squad level but for Epic level the old fluff seems to make a whole lot more sense than refusing titan support when a few Gargants are heading their way. Dark Angels are suspicious, not stupid!
_________________
"The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
|
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Tas
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:15 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
|
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:01 am
Posts: 7823
Location: Sydney, NSW
|
|
Oh I wouldn?t dispute that. I don?t want army list power creep. But my point is that the Deathwing and Ravenwing are only very slightly more powerful in 40k than regular terminators or bike units. At Epic scale I think one could argue that the difference isn?t big enough to warrant any difference in stats. |
OR...
one could argue that the REAL difference is AT the Epic level where their superior coordination with other army units and used in mass is where the true strenght comes form. Now you can outflank a whole army and hit with some real sting
_________________
Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
|
| Top |
|
|
|
Bombot
|
Post subject: Marine section Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:45 pm |
|
| Brood Brother |
|
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 348
Location: Reading, UK
|
|
You could look at it that way. I guess I think is that Bikes and Terminators are already two of the better formations in the Marine list. And in that respect it seems the Marine list already suits the Dark Angel setup better than a Codex setup.
If it grates having the Ravenwing bikers being worse than the White Scar bikers, I just look at it this way. The White Scars use bikes specifically for fast attack. The Ravenwing (I seem to remember) devotes more of its time to reconnaissance.
But yes I can see scope for making larger Ravenwing or Deathwing formations.
_________________
"The Hoff isn't just a person - he's a state of mind, a kind of higher power"
|
|
| Top |
|
|
