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The Harbinger Bomber
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:16 am 
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In Aeronautica, a Harbinger bomber has twice the Hit Points of a Thunderhawk Gunship.

Thus we have a starting point: DC4



So.


Speed: Bomber
Armour: 4+ (Reinforced)      (Perhaps 5+RA?)
3x Autocannons
Bombs: BP12 (Disrupt)


Reckon that's unkillable?

Remember that it'd be bought out of your Titan / Navy allowance, so you'd lose out on Ferals / whatever.

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Markconz
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:21 am 
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5+RA as an absolute maximum if that good.

Provided it is pointed properly and doesn't have an overpowerd weaponload then I think it may have a place.

I see Pixelgeek is back at SG forums and doesn't think it should be in EA based on its AI stats.

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orangesm
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:20 pm 
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I think that creating two new units (Harbinger & Marauder Flight) that preform orbital strikes but are high altitude aircraft would work well.  Or possibly creating a new kind of attack that is a high altitude aircraft squadron dropping their load thus creating a chain of small templates.

Having the Harbinger role in for low altitude close air support is just scary.

If you want to go with a model in game drop its BP to 6 - in AI 3 Marauders can carry the equivalent and the same should be true in Epic.  Why does it get disrupt when other bombers (the Marauder) does not?  It is not a Dive Bomber (Stuka) - it is a super-heavy high altitude city leveling bomber.




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pixelgeek
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:56 pm 
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(Markconz @ Jul. 04 2007,03:21)
QUOTE
I see Pixelgeek is back at SG forums and doesn't think it should be in EA based on its AI stats.

As a Chaos player I'd love an excuse to buy the thing :-)

I am mostly agreeing with smarter people than I who have already said that the unit would be unkillable in the game.

I think that there might be a way to get it into the game but I don't know that including it as an aircraft would be the way to do it.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:58 pm 
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(orangesm @ Jul. 04 2007,05:20)
QUOTE
I think that creating two new units (Harbinger & Marauder Flight) that preform orbital strikes but are high altitude aircraft would work well.  Or possibly creating a new kind of attack that is a high altitude aircraft squadron dropping their load thus creating a chain of small templates.

This seems like the best approach I think.

And more in line with what the unit would probably really be used as... a high altitude bomber.

Perhaps add some sort of scatter to the initial template to make it a little less accurate (and more scary to the Chaos players :-) and that might be workable.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:28 pm 
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Three options I can see

1) Cheat. After x damage the bomber is driven off (read destroyed) - a way of artifically lowering the DC.

2) Wiggle it into the rules - but expensive air is never good even if you can pseudo balance it.

3) Alternative orbital strike. Add it the 'spaceships'. A varient is the high altitude bit, its a spaceship but uses normal bombing templates and doesn't have to decide target point in advance and is slow and steady (turn three you know the heavens will open!).

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J0k3r
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:31 pm 
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(pixelgeek @ Jul. 04 2007,15:58)
QUOTE
Perhaps add some sort of scatter to the initial template to make it a little less accurate (and more scary to the Chaos players :-) and that might be workable.

OPeration cobra anybody? :p

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:58 pm 
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You could do what's been done with the Tau list and introduce a collectors section.  It's a good place for stuff that people might want to use but isn't tournament balanced.

Orde

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Legion 4
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:13 pm 
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Operation Cobra is a good example of hvy Bombers being used in a tactical mode. And I mentioned before, B-52s today are being used in a more tactical mode.  Now as I have said, we use the 1/3 rule - 33% of your total battleforce level can be used on Titans, Ortillery (SM1 Off Board Spt rules or E:A BFG interface) and CAS.  Now the Harbinger might take most if not all of those points ... :D

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Chroma
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:40 pm 
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There's already one 4DC aircraft in the lists, the Space Marine Landing Craft, so it's not without precedent.

4DC, RA5+, 6-8BPs of bombs and some other weapons... doesn't seem that ridiculous.

What's its anti-air capabilities like?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:05 am 
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Aye, I don't see a 4DC bomber with RA5+ as being beyond balancing.

It'd be considerably easier to kill than a Landing Craft.



What's its anti-air capabilities like?



Three Autocannons (Front/left/right arcs).


Affixed to an aircraft, that'd be something like:

Range 45cm
AP5+ / AT6+ / AA6+

Unless there's already an airborne Autocannon stat, in which case we'd probably want to copy that one.



Other than that, its only weapons are bombs.



Why does it get disrupt when other bombers (the Marauder) does not?  

Apologies, I meant to include Ignore Cover, not Disrupt, as it is described as dropping incindary bombs.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:13 am 
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Uh. The autocannon.

There isn't one existing, outside of my Inquisition lists, as far as I know.

I've gone for:

45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+

But 45cm is very long ranged for an AA weapon. I did give my gun-cutter 45cm-ranged autocannons, but then they're primary weapons. I would give defensive autocannons a 30cm range, just as the thunderhawk has two ranges for different heavy bolters
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:01 am 
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But 45cm is very long ranged for an AA weapon. I did give my gun-cutter 45cm-ranged autocannons, but then they're primary weapons. I would give defensive autocannons a 30cm range, just as the thunderhawk has two ranges for different heavy bolters


I'm cool with that.

They're used in a point-defense role rather than long-range deliberate attacks, so reduced range makes sense.

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Markconz
 Post subject: The Harbinger Bomber
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:41 am 
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I don't know... the third template is usually less effective than the other two, and there's no sustained fire with aircraft. You are probably right to err on the side of caution though.

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