Tactical Command
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Unit upgrades
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=970		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  vanvlak [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Hi all, there's been lots of posts on flying beasties in Epic, and flying in Epic A has become more interesting with Vultures and Landas and stuff. One historical element missing from EA (or, to my knowledge, amy previous Epic rules) is the dive-bomber. The idea goes well with the orks - E Sunz flyboys would LOVE to hurtle vertically down racing the bombs to the target. So - are there any rules or suggestions for including these in Epic. They should be more difficult to hit by AA; and they might perhaps add an extra blast marker as a result of their terrifying attack. Any thoughts?
Author:  Jimbo [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
...and a chance of ploughing straight into the ground after failing to pull out of the dive!
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades

Dive bombers were invented when there was a need of delivering the ordnance with more or less pin point accuracy, as opposed to carpet bombing. They became kind of unnecessary after air to ground rockets were invented and bombing accuracy improved by courtesy of advanced sights and (later) computers and smart weapons. That's why we don't see them anymore; their niche has been taken by other things.
<\SOTR MODE>

That said, the idea is definitely orky and would appeal to their mindset. However, the dive bombers should be very poor in air to air combat with possibly an orky chance of becoming integral part of the landscape as Jimbo already suggested.

Ok, Vanvlak, now you'll have to make "BigGunz" Roodelz stooka skwadron... :p
Author:  vanvlak [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 19 2004 Feb.,13:33)
Ok, Vanvlak, now you'll have to make "BigGunz" Roodelz stooka skwadron... :p

Hey - I like the name! Hmm - never tried converting an aeroplane before... coem to think of it, I don't even have any in stock...

The Enginseer is cogitating.
Author:  iblisdrax [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Cool idea!  and very Orky!  Also I would love to see one splattered across the landscape!! :D

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  nealhunt [ Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
I'd say make the bommas, give them a BP weapon, and a single, short-range fxf AP/AA attack and call it done.
Author:  Xavi [ Sat Sep 04, 2004 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Hello,

well, I have finished reading the rules for epic. I think I got a general idea on how it works but I certainly need at least an other reread of them! :) i have some doubts, though. One of the main ones I got was the following:

Let's say that I have an IG infantry company. If I give it the leman russ and fire support platoon upgrades do all of them need to shot at the same target? I know they need to get the same activation order as a whole (all of them march, all of them shot...) but I am unsure if they can split their fire between different enemy formations or not. I think they can't, but to make sure about it. Thnks in advance :)

Health and sixes,

Xavi
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
My take on this (and this may not be 100% correct) is the following:

There are two types of additions to your core formation. The first type adds more units to the basic formations. So, you could add another six infantry stands to the basic 13 and a Hydra, making a total of 20 stands. In this case, the combined total are a single formation, and follow all rules such as remaining within formation distance and all shooting at the same target.

The second type is a small, seperate formation, such as a formation of three tanks. These are a completely seperate formation, dont have to stay anywhere near their 'parent' and are in no way linked, although they (obviously) have to stay within formation of the other two tanks.
Author:  Xavi [ Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Found it

"In addition, companies may be given up to three company
upgrades. Each type of upgrade can only be taken once by a
company (ie, an infantry company could have an Ogryn and
a Sniper upgrade, but not two Sniper upgrades). Upgrades
are added to the company and are not a separate formation.
Support formations may not be given company upgrades."

So, if you add a trio of tanks to an infstry company they must shot at the same targets and remain in formation with the rest of the company. Good to know. I thought it was like that, but was unsure.

Xavi
Author:  iblisdrax [ Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:25 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Yeah, you got it right.  Upgrades are part of the formation, support units are separate.  Although you may want to check out the 'intermingled formation' rules, they can lead to some formations being considered as one.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
Author:  dafrca [ Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:46 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
One game, just for fun, we each tried to make the least number of formations. Made for some odd but fun games. I had each of my "formations" with the max number of upgrades.  :p

It was fun for once, but be careful with upgrades or you will be playing this kind of game one sided.   :laugh:

dafrca
Author:  Tas [ Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:44 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
This split fire issue is one of the major points for argument between many in EA circles.  

ie The "But my tanks aren't effective firing at those soft infantry targets and so wont fire at them"

vs

the "you can t see any other closer immediate threats so your guys must open up on them i preference to others"

it goes around, and around... but yes your interpretation that the upgrades have to fire on the same target is correct unless you have a local or club rule for the above argument...
Author:  Serps [ Mon Sep 06, 2004 1:14 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
The good thing about Russes is that they're bloody good against everything. I wiped out a CSM Chosen detachment with only 7 tanks and a Hydra, on Advance orders.

(stupid Bloodthirsters shrugged off the lascannon fire though. 2+ armour save, cripes!)
Author:  Mojarn Piett [ Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
Quote (Tas @ 05 2004 Sep.,05:44)
This split fire issue is one of the major points for argument between many in EA circles.  

ie The "But my tanks aren't effective firing at those soft infantry targets and so wont fire at them"

vs

the "you can t see any other closer immediate threats so your guys must open up on them i preference to others"

it goes around, and around...

Yep. I have always found it strange that a whole bloody company has to blast at the same target. A platoon I can understand but a compay?  ???

Personally I'd like to see the fire priority system from Spearhead where tanks and AT weapons have to shoot at tanks and infantry has to shoot at infantry whenever possible.

Plus the last argument is, IMO, flawed.  What would an Anti-TANK gun detachment shoot if it was supporting some infantry? The charging enemy infantry? Or the enemy tanks they're supposed to protect their infantry from?

I'm really glad that the few AT-guns our forces had in the Winter War didn't follow the E:A firing system...
Author:  iblisdrax [ Mon Sep 06, 2004 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Unit upgrades
I really hate being forced to fire on a particular unit simply because it is closer and therefor, a greater threat.  I thought the commander of a unit was supposed to determine whether or not  to fire on the charging infantry, or fire on the tanks behind them (who WILL cause him more damage) and take whatever the infantry dish out.  So I am a fan of Epic:A's orginal rules that allow you to shoot whatever target you want, as long as it is in range.  And remember, even if you only have AT weapons, you can still fire and leave a blast marker on the target formation.  I know it is not much, but against an assaulting force, one BM could be the difference between victory and defeat.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax
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