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| Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8441 |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Well it came up before, IIRC, so let me know what you think ? ?Should the Manticore (all versions) be just an Artillery piece with direct and indirect fire capabilities ? ? Or be an ?Anti-Air Weapon too ? ?It's possible for a weapons system to be both, WWII German 88, Weapons systems in Hammer's Slammers, etc. Most (but not all) AAA weapons can do both ... ?And since a Manticore fires missiles/rockets, those could be duel purpose (DP) ? ? So what do you Boyz think ? ?I'm leaning toward DP ?  |
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| Author: | orangesm [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
I am not sure... I would think that the use of Manticores would require special ammunition. I am not sure how often it would really be needed. But I agree, FW has decided (against their own other text) that the Manticore can become a SAM. I might argue that it has a minimum range. In 40k they are only FA, not mobile SAMs. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Good points ... I'm thinking that the ammo could be DP like the M203 rounds ... But it would be just as easy to leave it as FA and let the Hydras, Hunters, etc. do the AA work ! But I guess I'm thinking of G/W keeping the "fluff" consistant ... but why should they start now !  Thanks for your input, "O" ! 
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| Author: | orangesm [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Realized a reason to keep the SA Manticore out of Epic - it negates air power all together if given the same range as the FA Manticore. With a range of 150 cm, a battery of SA Manticores set up 10 cm from the table edge can hit any aircraft that enters the board, from anywhere. I have not gotten AeroImp yet so I am unable to do a good comparison between the Manticore and Hydra to do the proper scaling, even though I think that the Hydra is under ranged at 45 cm (it is a long gun meant to reach out and touch someone should have more range than the infantry carried version). But even with that it will only be a rough scaling of the SA Manticore to Epic. But for right now - I would not include it in any list aside from maybe an Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment list and even then make it rare. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Yes, I think that makes sense. I'll just keep my Manticores as FA unless something major changes. We don't play CAP in our Epic games only CAS, anyway. We see Epic as Ground Forces support by Titans and CAS not the other way around ! So only 1/3 of our total points goes to Titans, CAS and Off Board Support (OBS) = E:A's support from Spaceships ...
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| Author: | Mojarn Piett [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
I would think Manticore is more of an area AA system whereas even in epic scale the AA weapons used are more of the point AA type. |
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| Author: | NOVAGUARD [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
the reason the manticore can be used as a SAM is due to a different rocket load in the fluff, and these rockets are rare and kinda frowned apon... (semi aware smart missles?) so they would be shorter ranged and IMHO far too rare for epic scale usage.... |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
I concur, Manticores should be FA only, not AAA. I think there are already enough dedicated AAA units. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Well I see we all Agree ! Too bad G/W-F/W-S-G can't get their fluff together ! AGAIN ! 
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| Author: | orangesm [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
If an Imperial Guard Artillery Regiment list were developed I would consider the possibility of having a Battery of SA Manticores, but it would be a 0-1 or 0-2 choice, unable to attack anything but air targets, lacks disrupt of the normal Manticores, still slow-firing, very expensive. |
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
Yes, on the AI thread Ragnorok, paraphrased the fluff and the Manticore in AA role is rare, etc. ... So case closed ! And based on all this intell, I withdraw my comment about G/W's fluff ... at least in this case ...
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| Author: | Blarg D Impaler [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
(Legion 4 @ Jan. 24 2007,21:30) QUOTE Well it came up before, IIRC, so let me know what you think ? ?Should the Manticore (all versions) be just an Artillery piece with direct and indirect fire capabilities ? ? Or be an ?Anti-Air Weapon too ? ?It's possible for a weapons system to be both, WWII German 88, Weapons systems in Hammer's Slammers, etc. Most (but not all) AAA weapons can do both ... ?And since a Manticore fires missiles/rockets, those could be duel purpose (DP) ? ? So what do you Boyz think ? ?I'm leaning toward DP ? ? I know this has been decided, rightfully so, but I thought I'd give some more background. The German 8.8cm was convertable because an AA gun and an anti-tank gun both have the same rough guidelines: high-velocity shell that can go long range. The AA aspect needs the high velocity to reach altitude, the anti-tank aspect needs the high velocity for higher kinetic energy. You can't really dual-purpose an artillery missile, unless you want to make it REALLY expensive. Now, you can make the launcher dual purpose pretty easily. The thing is that any missiles launched will have to be roughly the same size. Since artillery missiles tend to be big, and the ones on the maniticore are big, any AA missiles coming off of that thing will be too big to be maneuverable enough to be a tactical AA missile. They'd have to be a long-range anti-bomber missiles. *IF* you want to get funny and make the Manticore a dual-use weapon, I suggest that for a price they can launch AA missiles that can only target war engines. Give the AA missile a -4 to hit modifier, with a +1 to hit for every point of starting DC the target has. Give the warhead a TK(D3) rating. Or something like that, you guys work out the details. |
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| Author: | Evil and Chaos [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
The idea as I understand it is that the Manticore is a dual-use platform, but the Manticore's AA missiles are for high-altitude targetting, and thus aren't suitable for an Epic game (Which all takes place pretty close to the ground). Oh and they're really rare.
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| Author: | NOVAGUARD [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
as i said earlier id be against the dual usage of a maticore, not so much for its individual ablities, but because itwould make the IG arty company a no brainer... 9 manticores, normally overkill at 2 BP each, having 3 or four is effective, leaving half the detachment on flack mode.... next turn switch around whist half the detachment is reloading... failing that you fly into 9 SAM units... 
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| Author: | J0k3r [ Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Manticores in Epic ... FA, AAA or both ? |
@Blarg- Something else ive often wondered is that ive seen games (ie combat mission) that also have 88mm artillery. Is this the 88mm Flak/At gun in another role or is it a different gun? |
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